Premiership DORs, Cockers and critics

[Scott1]

I just don't see anything special in GM,not a needed purchase already having 3 hookers when other areas needed strengthening,another moment of RC genius! He's got an absolute fascination of the front row rather than looking beyond that.

[ancientmariner]

There are a lot of good points on here, but let's look at things from a different angle. Peter Tom was mentioned earlier - and I do wonder whether the board generally have lost some focus. All of us will be receiving daily e-mails relating to the retail and hospitality side of the club. Is it possible that the Board are concentrating on this rather than the playing side - and, yes, I do know that the Tigers is a business that has to make money ? Someone else also mentioned the responsibility split between the Director of Rugby and the Head Coach. Do we really need both positions ?

[voice of the crumbie]

I just don't see anything special in GM,not a needed purchase already having 3 hookers when other areas needed strengthening,another moment of RC genius! He's got an absolute fascination of the front row rather than looking beyond that.

I beg to differ. It seems to me that a decision has been taken to play Bateman at prop rather than hooker. That being the case leaves a hooker short as we would only have Tom Youngs and Thacker hence the Mc Guigan purchase. To be honest as we haven't seen a great deal of Mc Guigan it's a bit difficult to pass judgement on his ability.

[dunks43]

Tuilagi earning 450k has been confirmed in press many times and Cockers said he is the top earner. This adds up with most internationals around 300-350k.

JPP is likely be on at least 300k, I would imagine 350k.

Everyone knows the going rate of players, if you are mates with a couple of Prem players you know what is the going rate for each position and international quality etc.

I don't know the precise salary of the Senior Finance Manager at Coca Cola. But I do know an 8 years post qualified accountant earns about 100-120k so I won't be far off!

The press also quoted that elvis was working in achip shopand Leicester city would never win the league.

Most internationals may earn earn 300k , but that is made up largely from test match fee's and not from the tigers

[Southerntiger]

Tuilagi earning 450k has been confirmed in press many times and Cockers said he is the top earner. This adds up with most internationals around 300-350k.

JPP is likely be on at least 300k, I would imagine 350k.

Everyone knows the going rate of players, if you are mates with a couple of Prem players you know what is the going rate for each position and international quality etc.

I don't know the precise salary of the Senior Finance Manager at Coca Cola. But I do know an 8 years post qualified accountant earns about 100-120k so I won't be far off!

The press also quoted that elvis was working in achip shopand Leicester city would never win the league.

Most internationals may earn earn 300k , but that is made up largely from test match fee's and not from the tigers

That just isn't true, I know for a fact that Robshaw, Care and Marler are on 320k at Quins

Sources obviously can't be revealed but that is fact.

Jack Clifford negotiated 200k in his last contract and wasn't too happy when he found out what other internationals are on recently

An England player earns 22k a test so if they play 12 tests a year that's around 270k on top of club salary

[h's dad]

Tuilagi earning 450k has been confirmed in press many times and Cockers said he is the top earner. This adds up with most internationals around 300-350k.

JPP is likely be on at least 300k, I would imagine 350k.

Everyone knows the going rate of players, if you are mates with a couple of Prem players you know what is the going rate for each position and international quality etc.

I don't know the precise salary of the Senior Finance Manager at Coca Cola. But I do know an 8 years post qualified accountant earns about 100-120k so I won't be far off!

The press also quoted that elvis was working in achip shopand Leicester city would never win the league.

Most internationals may earn earn 300k , but that is made up largely from test match fee's and not from the tigers

That just isn't true, I know for a fact that Robshaw, Care and Marler are on 320k at Quins

Sources obviously can't be revealed but that is fact.

Jack Clifford negotiated 200k in his last contract and wasn't too happy when he found out what other internationals are on recently

An England player earns 22k a test so if they play 12 tests a year that's around 270k on top of club salary

The likelihood of the financial aspect of their contracts being such a simple one liner is as likely as there being a WW2 bomber on the moon, which you seem to find more than plausible. You've already stated your sources for us to assess their credence. What is Santa bringing you for Christmas?

Oh, and for those numbers and names to be as complete and factual as you claim, which they are clearly not, it can only be through direct personal or professional relationships which would make their revelation reprehensible and despicable. Or am I just a little old-fashioned? Can everybody smell something like Rudolph's droppings?

[Southerntiger]

Believe what you like. I haven't seen the contracts or know their pension contributions, employee benefits and family medical insurance!

But those base salaries are bang on the money. Yarde signed for them from London Irish for 250k a year as well

[kend]

While I'm loath to ride to the defence of Southern Tiger, why do you think he is wrong? The salary cap is £6.5M, spread across a squad of approx 40 with 2 exclusions. Player salaries aren't evenly spread - I think the average is still around £100k - the top players (and at Quins Robshaw and Care are certainly that) get a disproportional amount of the cap. One of the problems (at any paid level of the game) is how to balance the demands of the 'top talent' with the rest without ending up with a fractured changing room.

As to the OP's question, the club need to be pretty sure they know what the problem is before taking action, otherwise you are quite likely to make things worse (we do sit 4th in the premiership). Also action will cost money that we probably don't have. I doubt that that level of clarity exists at present.

In this circumstance IMHO you ask two questions; do I still have confidence in the ability of the individuals and are their plans for the rest of the season/next season credible given the constraints. If both those are positive you stick with it.

IMHO it is possible to read more into Saturday's game than there is. Munster had the sort of day where everything goes your way and Tigers the opposite (they certainly got on the wrong side of Poite early!). It's worth noting that top performing teams sometimes collectively under perform (ask Pep Guardiola!). If there were a sports psychologist who could reliably fix it they would be paid more than Cockerill, Ranieri and Guardiola combined.

[h's dad]

While I'm loath to ride to the defence of Southern Tiger, why do you think he is wrong?

I thought I'd made it reasonably clear. I'm not saying the numbers aren't feasible given certain outcomes but to state player X is on £Y and that's it is only for newspapers to give extremes at best because they are newspapers, and that is if there is any accuracy at all. Even at the lowest level players get retainers, match fees, win bonuses, season performance bonuses and other items and it is more complicated further up as the numbers get bigger. Surely anybody who has played organised sport knows this? I can't be bothered to check but I think Southerntiger's England number is about right for training and match fees and image rights but match win bonuses, competition win bonuses and climbs in the rankings are on top of that. I really don't know how Manu's package is made up but I would suggest that he would need to play a fair few games to get close to £450k and that it is working out at a lot less than that at the moment. I can also say that if I did know with any confidence or certainty I certainly wouldn't be putting it on this forum.

[voice of the crumbie]

As to the OP's question, the club need to be pretty sure they know what the problem is before taking action, otherwise you are quite likely to make things worse (we do sit 4th in the premiership). Also action will cost money that we probably don't have. I doubt that that level of clarity exists at present.

In this circumstance IMHO you ask two questions; do I still have confidence in the ability of the individuals and are their plans for the rest of the season/next season credible given the constraints. If both those are positive you stick with it.

IMHO it is possible to read more into Saturday's game than there is. Munster had the sort of day where everything goes your way and Tigers the opposite (they certainly got on the wrong side of Poite early!). It's worth noting that top performing teams sometimes collectively under perform (ask Pep Guardiola!). If there were a sports psychologist who could reliably fix it they would be paid more than Cockerill, Ranieri and Guardiola combined.

Well said kend. I wholeheartedly agree. I have to say that this is the most balanced and carefully considered response I have read on all the threads dealing with Saturday's debacle, its aftermath and the rest of the season.

[JackFlashJonny]

While I'm loath to ride to the defence of Southern Tiger, why do you think he is wrong?

I thought I'd made it reasonably clear. I'm not saying the numbers aren't feasible given certain outcomes but to state player X is on £Y and that's it is only for newspapers to give extremes at best because they are newspapers, and that is if there is any accuracy at all. Even at the lowest level players get retainers, match fees, win bonuses, season performance bonuses and other items and it is more complicated further up as the numbers get bigger. Surely anybody who has played organised sport knows this? I can't be bothered to check but I think Southerntiger's England number is about right for training and match fees and image rights but match win bonuses, competition win bonuses and climbs in the rankings are on top of that. I really don't know how Manu's package is made up but I would suggest that he would need to play a fair few games to get close to £450k and that it is working out at a lot less than that at the moment. I can also say that if I did know with any confidence or certainty I certainly wouldn't be putting it on this forum.

There are two things we can be certain of on this forum..One being ellis9 is so positive it beggars logical belief and the other is if you mention salary caps or anything to do with salary or money then h's dad will attack

I really cannot wait until the day all these figures are released as standard but as it stands I think this is unfair on those who do not earn that much..until then it is all just speculation

But I speculate whatever Sarries are doing in terms of packages is some amazing business on their part but I would take less money to be part of History as I am sure most sportsman would

[h's dad]

Hello JFJ

There are two things we can be certain of on this forum..One being ellis9 is so positive it beggars logical belief

I'll take Ellis's helium balloon positivity over the deadweight negativity anchors of others but as you probably know that's another hobbyhorse of mine

and the other is if you mention salary caps or anything to do with salary or money then h's dad will attack

If somebody says something I'm not sure about I'll say I'm not sure about it, if it's tripe I'll say it's ruminant stomach lining.

I really cannot wait until the day all these figures are released as standard but as it stands I think this is unfair on those who do not earn that much..until then it is all just speculation

Bit confused here. You can't wait for all these figures to be public but it's not fair on the lower earners? I think at one end there is a right to privacy and at the other there may be 'in the public interest.' I don't know where the line is or even if there is one and am happy to consider points made by others. Hopefully that isn't too aggressive.

But I speculate whatever Sarries are doing in terms of packages is some amazing business on their part but I would take less money to be part of History as I am sure most sportsman would

And harmony breaks out

[JackFlashJonny]

I am stating as it stands it is not fair on the low earners but it should be in the next 5 years perhaps..and I would love to spend an afternoon at work perusing said report

I am sure if we saw what some of our current crop are on compared to Sarries current crop it would make poor reading for us..

Ps what happened to Roly did he quit or get forced out?

[Iain]

I am stating as it stands it is not fair on the low earners but it should be in the next 5 years perhaps..and I would love to spend an afternoon at work perusing said report

I am sure if we saw what some of our current crop are on compared to Sarries current crop it would make poor reading for us..

Ps what happened to Roly did he quit or get forced out?

I was also expecting him to make a return, this week of all weeks.

Loved a good argument that boy.

[JackFlashJonny]

I am stating as it stands it is not fair on the low earners but it should be in the next 5 years perhaps..and I would love to spend an afternoon at work perusing said report

I am sure if we saw what some of our current crop are on compared to Sarries current crop it would make poor reading for us..

Ps what happened to Roly did he quit or get forced out?

I was also expecting him to make a return, this week of all weeks.

Loved a good argument that boy.

I hope he is alright as no Troll would miss an opportunity like this..I guess he must not be a Troll after all..that or Tigerbeat finally got sick of the discord he caused

Like how you said boy to try and assert some high ground over him..typical Iain that