Premiership DORs, Cockers and critics

[doublecarpet]

I can accept that we have fallen back to what was the chasing pack, and in one case, (Sarries), have been consistently overtaken due to a number of potentially mitigating circumstances.
However, that still doesn't mitigate the complete meltdowns we've witnessed over the last 3-4 season, Ulster, Bath x 2, Sarries at the Allianz every game, Glasgow, Munster, Gloucester last season. How many of those now comparable teams have taken that many heavy beatings in that time?

[Iain]

But we beat Gloucester home and away last season...?

Anyway, yes, there have been a number of humiliating defeats over the last few seasons. I don't think this is strictly speaking something that's suddenly happened though. There have been dark times and dark results right through the professional era.

They happen. How you bounce back from them is telling.

[BFG]

There are quite a lot of half truths going on here Jgriffin.

I have called Cockers out for last 24 months and it has been for two key reasons: selection and recruitment.

I am not going to rehash all the recruitment errors of last 3 years but let’s look at last few:

Number 8 – Glaring hole that has killed us
Flankers – O’Connor is a good player but he isn’t doing a Schalk Burger/George Smith and earning his big bucks. Croft should have been let go and not had his last contract renewed.
Second rows – Needed to hire a classy player, don’t have one international quality second row
Hooker – McGuigan was not the right hooker to get. Sarries get Tolofua, Wasps get Tommy Taylor, Bath get Jack Walker and we get George McGuigan……
Centres – Let’s not even go into the detail, De Villiers disaster, Matt Smith and Catchpole not trusted so they are just wasted cash.

Selection has been diabolical. Front row selection has been haphazard and inconsistent, who is our second hooker?! Is Bateman a tighthead or hooker? Is Mulipola a 1 or a 3? Fitzgerald seems to be guaranteed a start in the big games not sure why. And despite Kitchener not pushing on, he is our best lineout forward by a mile so why is he on the bench a lot?

Will Evans not got the chances he has deserved. McCafferey is the only guy who can play 8. Kitto and Harrison are constanly chopped and changed, no wonder they struggle to find form. Why is Owen Williams at 12? He should either be on the bench or not in 23, he isn’t Owen Farrell. Betham is moved about constantly, the bloke is a winger. God knows how he feels.

And Tuilagi, this is a prime of example of people looking at history and always thinking it will repeat itself. The bloke has been unlucky with injury but he has had his best days in all probability. Barely played in 3 years and whoever decided him to pay 450k a year needs their head testing. Maybe worth a punt on 200k a year but 450k for him is mental.

JP Pietersen – good player but why spend a fortune on a winger when 4-8 is in desperate need of some big bucks spent there.

The De Villiers signing has to go down as the worst in Premiership rugby history. The bloke was injured constantly from 2012 to 2015, yet we still sign him.

Some foundation in your comment and also some unfair criticism.
Is that the same George McGuigan that England saviour Mr Jones picked for the Saxons recently, you know that coach who according to many is supposedly and single-handedly responsible for turning a poor performing team into a good one?
George seems to be getting quite a bit of stick on here which is odd because the lad has hardly played, and certainly not enough to bed in properly at a new club, and not much George could do to change OTY from being :censored: for an hour before but George gets the stick.
People were saying Betham was the best performing centre in the league last season and rightly so at times.

[GS]

I always thought there was a logical hierarchy in the management and training of rugby teams with DOR being the kingpin. Now I'm confused so perhaps someone could explain to me, and I suspect quite a few others, the pecking order in the chain of command at Tigers and the responsibilities of each post? I appreciate that this is slightly complicated by dual roles being held by Cockers and Mauger, DOR and forwards coach and Head Coach and backs coach. Who decides who to release and who to hire? Who decides on the game plan for each game? (I won't even ask if there is a game plan.) If Mauger is Head Coach and responsible for the game plan why is it always Cockers with the headphones and talking into the microphone while Mauger looks on when the cameras cut to the coaches? Who actually picks the team? Do they (RC and AM) each pick the players for their own specialist areas?

I suspect that clarification of these points might resolve, or focus, a lot of the gripes on here at the moment.

[Tigerbeat]

Gs, think you will find that all the coaches are fitted with communication equipment. Mauger, Cockerill, Balze, Murphy, Cornwell, Doctor and Medics.
Not sure that anything can be read into why it appears that Cockerill is doing all the talking.

[mol2]

We have a big dynamic hooker, unfortunately he is being used as a prop.
Another example of how the coaches don't seem to have moved on with the times.

Second rows are undynamic. And the flankers are all too easily knocked off the ball.

Kicking game is plain daft. Not to touch and too far for the chasers (even if we chased).

[GS]

They happen. How you bounce back from them is telling.

The trouble is that we are like a tennis ball, each bounce is is smaller than the previous - never achieving the previous heights. The days of being nailed on as a finalist at Twickers are long gone and now scraping 4th and a semi final drubbing appears a success.

[ourla]

Interesting to see some of the walloping teams have taken over the years.

http://stats.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/ ... ype=trophy

There are 46 in this list and whilst you may expect the likes of London Welsh and Rotherham featuring heavily I see only the Chiefs not in there at least once from the current premiership. However, I note they were trounced 55-12 at home by Sale in April 2014. Less than a month later Saints put Exeter to the sword 74-13.

All of which is to not excuse Saturdays defeat but simply say don't get too carried away with the scoreline.

[BFG]

We have a big dynamic hooker, unfortunately he is being used as a prop.
Another example of how the coaches don't seem to have moved on with the times.

Second rows are undynamic. And the flankers are all too easily knocked off the ball.

Kicking game is plain daft. Not to touch and too far for the chasers (even if we chased).

You are not wrong!
Bateman has been very good at tight head but he should've been playing regularly at hooker since before the European semi-final last season.

[Scott1]

It's selection and personnel for me. The lack of number 8 at this level is unforgivable,LM is a 7 and ut should be him or BOC,not both. Put Fitzgerald back at 6,where he played his best stuff last season instead of keep playing him at lock. Look at Thacker,dynamite last season and what happens,Cockers brings in McGuigan who has done nothing and poor Harry is hooking and flanking for the A team! He's got 3 front rows but still doesn't know what his best one is,Mulipola has played LH and TH and Bateman 1,2 and 3 and does anyone really believe Cockers doesn't have final say on everything? Hahaha behave! We've gone from AP winners to losing finalists to losing semi finalists,if that's not going backwards I don't know what is!

[BFG]

It's selection and personnel for me. The lack of number 8 at this level is unforgivable,LM is a 7 and ut should be him or BOC,not both. Put Fitzgerald back at 6,where he played his best stuff last season instead of keep playing him at lock. Look at Thacker,dynamite last season and what happens,Cockers brings in McGuigan who has done nothing and poor Harry is hooking and flanking for the A team! He's got 3 front rows but still doesn't know what his best one is,Mulipola has played LH and TH and Bateman 1,2 and 3 and does anyone really believe Cockers doesn't have final say on everything? Hahaha behave! We've gone from AP winners to losing finalists to losing semi finalists,if that's not going backwards I don't know what is!

Are you related to big T or do you clean his boots?
I do recall some very good moments, not least a try at Saints which was superb, and I recall a few shockers this season and last, Sarries, Sale, Newcastle, Racing and a crucial missed tackle, is Glasgow recent enough for your memory!
His level of consistency has been no better than others!

[Scott1]

I've seen enough from both to know Thacker is a better choice than McGuigan. I've noticed there's a hell of a lot of miserable folk on this forum! Should come to ours and have some fun! Seems to be a lot of folk who hang on Cockers buts as well as if he cant do no wrong!

[BFG]

I've seen enough from both to know Thacker is a better choice than McGuigan. I've noticed there's a hell of a lot of miserable folk on this forum! Should come to ours and have some fun! Seems to be a lot of folk who hang on Cockers buts as well as if he cant do no wrong!

You upside down, you sound it, how is Charlene these days?
You still sounding off plenty of carp I see!

[Scott1]

Carp? Mirror,crucian or common? Instead of trying to be clever why don't you explain why he isn't a better hooker than McGuigan?

[BFG]

Carp? Mirror,crucian or common? Instead of trying to be clever why don't you explain why he isn't a better hooker than McGuigan?

Carp as in "buts" rather than "butt".
If you haven't seen why he isn't better then no point me trying to explain it to you.
Personally I prefer the term different rather than better anyway, both have qualities and both still have plenty to improve.