Could be an interesting 6 weeks!

[ellis9]

Of course, I should have realised that you and Scott11 can't tolerate a positive thought about Tigers!

It's a shame really. You must live miserable lives!

Speaking personally, not at all.

There's optimism, and then there's outright delusion. But then I find its much better to be realistic about this team's ability, rather than try to doggedly convince myself that rugby utopia lies in the results to come.

Being second in the Premiership and second or first in our Champions Cup pool is realistic though.

I'm realistic, you're just negative

[Roly]

Of course, I should have realised that you and Scott11 can't tolerate a positive thought about Tigers!

It's a shame really. You must live miserable lives!

Speaking personally, not at all.

There's optimism, and then there's outright delusion. But then I find its much better to be realistic about this team's ability, rather than try to doggedly convince myself that rugby utopia lies in the results to come.

Being second in the Premiership and second or first in our Champions Cup pool is realistic though.

I'm realistic, you're just negative

No, I'm being realistic, based on recent results, and the season as a whole, being second in the Premiership and second or first in our Champions Cup pool is (mostly) not realistic.

That is not being negative, that is fact. I could see Tigers being in the top four of the AP within the timescale you purport, but you have singularly failed to take into account the fact that there are other teams above Tigers on better points, in better form and with easier fixtures. Top four is realistic (just), second is not.

As for Europe - now, I concede that Tigers could finish second in the group, but based on recent form, top of the group is not at all realistic. It is also quite possible that Tigers will finish third in their European Cup Group - lose to Munster on Saturday (a DISTINCT possibility)then that is where they will end up (and that's if they get results against Castres - the team who beat R92).

You need to balance being realistic with obvious fact before you start accusing anyone of writing Tigers off as being negative.

[ellis9]

Speaking personally, not at all.

There's optimism, and then there's outright delusion. But then I find its much better to be realistic about this team's ability, rather than try to doggedly convince myself that rugby utopia lies in the results to come.

Being second in the Premiership and second or first in our Champions Cup pool is realistic though.

I'm realistic, you're just negative

No, I'm being realistic, based on recent results, and the season as a whole, being second in the Premiership and second or first in our Champions Cup pool is not realistic.

That is not being negative, that is fact. I could see Tigers being in the top four of the AP within the timescale you purport, but you have singularly failed to take into account the fact that there are other teams above Tigers on better points, in better form and with easier fixtures. Top four is realistic (just), second is not.

As for Europe - now, I concede that Tigers could finish second in the group, but based on recent form, top of the group is not at all realistic. It is also quite possible that Tigers will finish third in their European Cup Group - lose to Munster on Saturday (a DISTINCT possibility)then that is where they will be.

You need to balance being realistic with obvious fact before you start accusing anyone of writing Tigers off as being negative.

We could be second in the Premiership and second or first in the Champions Cup pool after Christmas. This is a FACT.

Of course there are factors which could stop these happening but the FACT is, we COULD be second in the Premiership and second or first in the Champions Cup pool. You can argue against it all day but the FACT is, we could be! Wasps play Gloucester and Bath play Sale so either, Gloucester will stay second, Bath could go second, as could Wasps and if Saracens beat us, they could go second. However, we could also go second.

I never said we would be, just that we COULD be. You cannot say this isn't a FACT.

Just in case you're unsure, this is the definition of the word fact:
-A thing that is known or proved to be true.
- The truth about events as opposed to interpretation.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fact

[Roly]

Being second in the Premiership and second or first in our Champions Cup pool is realistic though.

I'm realistic, you're just negative

No, I'm being realistic, based on recent results, and the season as a whole, being second in the Premiership and second or first in our Champions Cup pool is not realistic.

That is not being negative, that is fact. I could see Tigers being in the top four of the AP within the timescale you purport, but you have singularly failed to take into account the fact that there are other teams above Tigers on better points, in better form and with easier fixtures. Top four is realistic (just), second is not.

As for Europe - now, I concede that Tigers could finish second in the group, but based on recent form, top of the group is not at all realistic. It is also quite possible that Tigers will finish third in their European Cup Group - lose to Munster on Saturday (a DISTINCT possibility)then that is where they will be.

You need to balance being realistic with obvious fact before you start accusing anyone of writing Tigers off as being negative.

Just in case you're unsure, this is the definition of the word fact:
-A thing that is known or proved to be true.
- The truth about events as opposed to interpretation.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fact

So, the results are not known (the matches haven't been played yet) and therefore by definition, cannot be proven to be true?

Try another definition.

[chewbacca]

It might be worth also reviewing and considering the definitions of possible and probable. Seems to me some are desperately clutching to the possibility of something irrespective of the low probability of the outcome. I would consider this an example of faith (belief without proof) versus realism which considers the likelihood (probability) of a particular outcome.

[Roly]

It might be worth also reviewing and considering the definitions of possible and probable. Seems to me some are desperately clutching to the possibility of something irrespective of the low probability of the outcome. I would consider this an example of faith (belief without proof) versus realism which considers the likelihood (probability) of a particular outcome.

This is a much better summation of the Ellis v Roly discussion.

However, I know a joke about the difference between 'potential' and 'reality' .

I'll forward it to Ellis.

[ellis9]

No, I'm being realistic, based on recent results, and the season as a whole, being second in the Premiership and second or first in our Champions Cup pool is not realistic.

That is not being negative, that is fact. I could see Tigers being in the top four of the AP within the timescale you purport, but you have singularly failed to take into account the fact that there are other teams above Tigers on better points, in better form and with easier fixtures. Top four is realistic (just), second is not.

As for Europe - now, I concede that Tigers could finish second in the group, but based on recent form, top of the group is not at all realistic. It is also quite possible that Tigers will finish third in their European Cup Group - lose to Munster on Saturday (a DISTINCT possibility)then that is where they will be.

You need to balance being realistic with obvious fact before you start accusing anyone of writing Tigers off as being negative.

Just in case you're unsure, this is the definition of the word fact:
-A thing that is known or proved to be true.
- The truth about events as opposed to interpretation.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fact

So, the results are not known (the matches haven't been played yet) and therefore by definition, cannot be proven to be true?

Try another definition.

No. What can be proven is than Tigers could be second in the Premiership and second or first in the Champions Cup pool. This is true and is a fact.

[Roly]

Just in case you're unsure, this is the definition of the word fact:
-A thing that is known or proved to be true.
- The truth about events as opposed to interpretation.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fact

So, the results are not known (the matches haven't been played yet) and therefore by definition, cannot be proven to be true?

Try another definition.

No. What can be proven is than Tigers could be second in the Premiership and second or first in the Champions Cup pool. This is true and is a fact.

Look, you haven't proved anything. You have stated a potential outcome.

As Chewbacca rightly pointed out, the opinion is based on what is possible and what is probable.

[ellis9]

Ok. I'll stop trying to explain it as clearly you either don't understand or you are choosing to believe you're right.

[Roly]

Ok. I'll stop trying to explain it as clearly you either don't understand or you are choosing to believe you're right.

Ah, now there's a definition you could look up:

'Irony'.

[ellis9]

Ok. I'll stop trying to explain it as clearly you either don't understand or you are choosing to believe you're right.

Ah, now there's a definition you could look up:

'Irony'.

I don't need to. I know what it means.

The difference is, I have different OPINIONS, which I will defend if questioned.

If there is a FACT, I won't argue against it.

[Scott11]

Is that a fact?

[Soggypitch]

You guys really have got too much time on your hands!!

Ellis you need to learn not to bite (especially to Roly).....the more you try to explain the more he loves it!!

I realise however that is impossible for you, not sure what you can do, therapy maybe?!

[strawclearer]

You guys really have got too much time on your hands!!

Ellis you need to learn not to bite (especially to Roly).....the more you try to explain the more he loves it!!

I realise however that is impossible for you, not sure what you can do, therapy maybe?!

.......and one hundred times

[Roly]

You guys really have got too much time on your hands!!

Ellis you need to learn not to bite (especially to Roly).....the more you try to explain the more he loves it!!

I realise however that is impossible for you, not sure what you can do, therapy maybe?!

The more confused I get more like. Still, at least he didn't use any acronyms this time. That sends people over the edge that does.