Is it now time to thank Cockers?

[jgriffin]

Why Cockers - he is the DOR.
Mauger is the Head Coach and his appointment Hansen proved to be inappropriate. Both have introduced complex and untested playing styles, and have failed. Hansen went and IMO so should Mauger. Unless EITHER a Tigers player is appointed as DOR or Head Coach, then Cockers would have to stay another season for continuity and stability. IMO we have internally and externally ex-players who could fulfil such roles, either with a world-class HC or a non-dogmatic DOR. The Board also has to consider their priorities, as that is part of the mix. The Mauger experiment has failed IMO, was very exciting but it was always a risk.
I also fully endorse BFG's post.

[drc_007]

There'd be more chance of getting Rob Baxter at the end of a season than part way through. Would he leave Exeter now when they are looking to get in the top 4 to win the league or would he leave once the season had finished and they had either not made the top 4, made the semi finals/final or won the league?

There is definitely more chance of getting someone at the end of the season than during it. The only ones that could be available now are those who are unemployed but who are they? No one good enough to become DOR of Tigers!

Unless Baxter is out of contract I doubt there is any chance of him moving to Tigers, he seems like a very honourable person and I'd expect him to stay until the end of his contract. Probably a candidate for England after Eddie Jones.

[L Smith]

Dare I say that in Matt O'Connor he possibly had the right man by his side and were possibly a very good foil for one other.

Results would suggest so. It's a seductive argument although there are other factors such as alleged celery cap breaches, top 14 spending and the overall improvement in quality of the AP.
I also think that Mauger's and Cockers' opposing influences generate less "fusion" and more "confusion".

I would hate to lose RC from the club entirely but I'm finding it more difficult to argue that he is the very best DOR that we could hope for. It pains me to say this and I hope that in 4 games time, I'm eating my words.

[Crumblies]

Why Cockers - he is the DOR.
Mauger is the Head Coach and his appointment Hansen proved to be inappropriate. Both have introduced complex and untested playing styles, and have failed. Hansen went and IMO so should Mauger. Unless EITHER a Tigers player is appointed as DOR or Head Coach, then Cockers would have to stay another season for continuity and stability. IMO we have internally and externally ex-players who could fulfil such roles, either with a world-class HC or a non-dogmatic DOR. The Board also has to consider their priorities, as that is part of the mix. The Mauger experiment has failed IMO, was very exciting but it was always a risk.
I also fully endorse BFG's post.

Here we go again, lets get rid of O'Connor it's all his fault, then lets get rid of Hansen it's his fault now let's get rid of Mauger it must be down to him. Dear oh dear.

Seriously do you honestly believe that Mauger has control and has a good working relationship with Cockerill? Where do you think yesterdays plan (if you can call it that) originated, 'lets go to Thomond park and boss them up front, control it in the forwards boys. Do you think that originated in New Zealand or 20 years ago in Leicester? No wonder the team looked rudderless, and you accuse others of have no idea about top level sport!

[ellis9]

If Cockerill and Mauger really can't work together, why hasn't Mauger left?

Obviously we are going to play the way the DOR chooses. If Mauger doesn't like that, he knows where the door is.

[Lammy]

Passion is running high which is perfectly understandable.

I for one flatly refuse to get involved in any debate about 'true support' but it's clear to see that EVERY poster cares- that should answer any question re loyalty.

Regarding the DOR debate, I have long been a supporter of Cockers and the continuance of 'The Leicester way'. I loved nothing more than promotion from within.........but now? It would take a lot for me to turn on Cockers but that said, I recognise the need for a change somewhere.

All I will say is, I'm extremely thankful that I don't need to make the decision on the coaching setup or player contracts/signings- what will be, will be but I'm not sure I would be as vocal as I once was about any coaching and perhaps 25% of the playing staff's departure.

[clash33]

It's clear to me that a change is needed. I would make it clear to all the coaching staff that contracts would not be renewed at the end of the season and that new DOR and associated staff would be sort. No idea why but the team is less than the sum of it's parts at the moment and this has to come from the top. Cockrer's has had a great run but new blood is needed.

[Crumblies]

If Cockerill and Mauger really can't work together, why hasn't Mauger left?

Obviously we are going to play the way the DOR chooses. If Mauger doesn't like that, he knows where the door is.

What a wonderful business model you really have. If the employees don't like it go, if the customers don't like it tell them to go and shop somewhere else.

You'd be an absolute smash as a CEO.

Any successful business continues to succeed by responding and adapting to change.

If all you do is recruit yes men who keep telling you what you want to hear then be prepared for the consequences.

People on this forum have been warning of these consequences for a long time now.

[Doghashadhisday]

Passion is running high which is perfectly understandable.

I for one flatly refuse to get involved in any debate about 'true support' but it's clear to see that EVERY poster cares- that should answer any question re loyalty.

Regarding the DOR debate, I have long been a supporter of Cockers and the continuance of 'The Leicester way'. I loved nothing more than promotion from within.........but now? It would take a lot for me to turn on Cockers but that said, I recognise the need for a change somewhere.

All I will say is, I'm extremely thankful that I don't need to make the decision on the coaching setup or player contracts/signings- what will be, will be but I'm not sure I would be as vocal as I once was about any coaching and perhaps 25% of the playing staff's departure.

But there has been change. We have brought Mauger in and it may take a few years before things get better. People are saying last year was the year of transition and we cant use that excuse, but is one or two season's enough to evolve a new style of play? We want something sustainable but a knee-jerk reaction will lead to instability. Mauger was given a 3 year contract to try and change the way we play, so let's wait and see what happens until then. Some people seem to want instant gratification, I am in favour a long and sustainable relationship rather than a 'quickie'. We may be in for a few up's and down's along the way but the ride will be worth it in the end

[Lammy]

Passion is running high which is perfectly understandable.

I for one flatly refuse to get involved in any debate about 'true support' but it's clear to see that EVERY poster cares- that should answer any question re loyalty.

Regarding the DOR debate, I have long been a supporter of Cockers and the continuance of 'The Leicester way'. I loved nothing more than promotion from within.........but now? It would take a lot for me to turn on Cockers but that said, I recognise the need for a change somewhere.

All I will say is, I'm extremely thankful that I don't need to make the decision on the coaching setup or player contracts/signings- what will be, will be but I'm not sure I would be as vocal as I once was about any coaching and perhaps 25% of the playing staff's departure.

But there has been change. We have brought Mauger in and it may take a few years before things get better. People are saying last year was the year of transition and we cant use that excuse, but is one or two season's enough to evolve a new style of play? We want something sustainable but a knee-jerk reaction will lead to instability. Mauger was given a 3 year contract to try and change the way we play, so let's wait and see what happens until then. Some people seem to want instant gratification, I am in favour a long and sustainable relationship rather than a 'quickie'. We may be in for a few up's and down's along the way but the ride will be worth it in the end

There's nothing knee jerk about my post- I completely agree with the majority of your post apart from your point re Mauger. It doesn't make sense. As you say, Mauger was brought in for three years- the final year being next year. If he then leaves, it's only evolution if someone continues his method.

[Smudge]

I looked forward to going to Limerick again and despite some trepidation
was expecting us to give a decent account of ourselves against the Irish Province.
As usual, we were made very welcome and the craic was excellent.
Frankly, like all of our crowd, I was embarrassed down to my boot-straps.
All the Guinness and Tullaghmore Dew I drank and the great hospitality enjoyed,
could not suppress the depression that came over me (us).
To get "nilled" in any game is humiliating, in this great stadium, it was appalling.
Frankly, we would have seen a better performance from our local colts.
Not that I'm counting but all together, I spent just over £800 for the pleasure.

As for RC? Just how bad does it have to get before he is shown the door?
I have long maintained he was out of his depth and frankly, so do more and more of us.
It is obvious, even to the most raving apologist that it is the coaching that
sets the play, the tactics and motivation.
All aspects of the backroom staff have been changed over the last two or three seasons,
the only constant is the "numpty" in charge.
There is no good time of the year to sack the DOR but frankly we should get on with it,ASAP
If he had an ounce of pride he would walk.
Who would take his place? No worries, the club is held in such high esteem
throughout the rugby world the applications will be numerous and well qualified.

[chewbacca]

There are almost certainly a number of variables involved re our lack of performance. Changing many variables at once affords no understanding of the importance of each. So we can't change the whole team but we can change the one variable that is the DOR. Sooner rather than later.

[Red Boots]

It seems that we need a highly paid DOR to succeed. May I make the obvious suggestion that we should double Cocker's wages?

[jgriffin]

Thanks to L Smith suggesting I know nothing about sport.
Yes, I thought MOC somewhat bogus, I detailed reasons at the time, some drawn from what I saw on the park, some from (possibly biased) player sources - so did Leinster it seems. I do not care whether Cockers stays or goes because that is not who decides the final field selection and tactics, it is the Head Coach. If we say the onfield tactics are wrong it is the HC that carries the can, whereas if both are involved then both may get booted. If the HC was Cockers choice, Cockers may go anyway. If player purchase is determined by the CEO, he may go. We may not be able to judge for several months yet.

I am concerned by the lack of cohesion. Others with nothing else to say use the phrase 'lost the dressing room'. Boss managers do not do that, they purge the dressing room of the disrupters au Ferguson (who may be top internationals). What I suspect is that tactical shortcomings, plus team selection churn, have combined to undermine confidence - once that happens, it is a positive falling feedback spiral potentially, failure feeding failure. The mark of good coaching is to redress that, which may take time and may be beyond the original team. That is what we are arguing (or insulting) about IMO. I have lost patience with the SH new style, frankly.

[ellis9]

[quote]
If Cockerill and Mauger really can't work together, why hasn't Mauger left?

Obviously we are going to play the way the DOR chooses. If Mauger doesn't like that, he knows where the door is.




What a wonderful business model you really have. If the employees don't like it go, if the customers don't like it tell them to go and shop somewhere else.

You'd be an absolute smash as a CEO.

Any successful business continues to succeed by responding and adapting to change.

If all you do is recruit yes men who keep telling you what you want to hear then be prepared for the consequences.

People on this forum have been warning of these consequences for a long time now.[quote]

When the business (Tigers) already has happy paying customers (fans) you can afford to lose some of the unhappy ones. In regards to staff, absolutely if one person isn't happy then they should go. You don't change a whole business model for 1 person!