Is it now time to thank Cockers?

[G.K]

I gave Cockers the benefit of the doubt for quite some time but after yet another downright pathetic performance I can do so no longer. Many in the team appeared to lack any will to win, any game plan, any pride nor indeed any guts. Sorry but it needs to be said. I excuse only Harrison, Hamilton, Worth and McCaffrey in this respect.

I do not say that Cockers is the only one at fault, some of the players and the executive need to take a good long hard look in the mirror, however as DOR Cockers has to take the can, that's just the way it is.

It's sad to see that some on this forum are unable to get past the denial stage.

[L Smith]

Thanks to L Smith suggesting I know nothing about sport.
Yes, I thought MOC somewhat bogus, I detailed reasons at the time, some drawn from what I saw on the park, some from (possibly biased) player sources - so did Leinster it seems. I do not care whether Cockers stays or goes because that is not who decides the final field selection and tactics, it is the Head Coach. If we say the onfield tactics are wrong it is the HC that carries the can, whereas if both are involved then both may get booted. If the HC was Cockers choice, Cockers may go anyway. If player purchase is determined by the CEO, he may go. We may not be able to judge for several months yet.

I am concerned by the lack of cohesion. Others with nothing else to say use the phrase 'lost the dressing room'. Boss managers do not do that, they purge the dressing room of the disrupters au Ferguson (who may be top internationals). What I suspect is that tactical shortcomings, plus team selection churn, have combined to undermine confidence - once that happens, it is a positive falling feedback spiral potentially, failure feeding failure. The mark of good coaching is to redress that, which may take time and may be beyond the original team. That is what we are arguing (or insulting) about IMO. I have lost patience with the SH new style, frankly.

Mr JG. I'm confused: seriously confused, as to why you have inferred what you have from my post. Judging by your informative and enlightening previous posts on conditioning and youth coaching, I've always thought you very knowledgeable. Would you mind pm'ing me to explain what led you to this conclusion?
Thanks
LS

[Scott1]

New poster,ST holder. Hello ladies and gentleman! I'm afraid his time is up,stick a fork in him. The proof is in the pudding,he's took us from AP winners to losing finalists to losing SFist so what more proof do you want. We are shocking to watch,the defence is awful but that's alright as long as he's got his 3 front rows! Got rid of 3 number 8s making our BR painfully underpowered and McGuigan over Thacker for me is just a ridiculous call,I genuinely hope this is his last season,we are going backwards now at an alarming rate and the run we were just on papered over the cracks and was inflated by AWC games and a poor Quins and Saints. Goodbye Cockers and don't let the door hit you on the :censored: on the way out!

[L Smith]

New poster,ST holder. Hello ladies and gentleman! I'm afraid his time is up,stick a fork in him. The proof is in the pudding,he's took us from AP winners to losing finalists to losing SFist so what more proof do you want. We are shocking to watch,the defence is awful but that's alright as long as he's got his 3 front rows! Got rid of 3 number 8s making our BR painfully underpowered and McGuigan over Thacker for me is just a ridiculous call,I genuinely hope this is his last season,we are going backwards now at an alarming rate and the run we were just on papered over the cracks and was inflated by AWC games and a poor Quins and Saints. Goodbye Cockers and don't let the door hit you on the :censored: on the way out!

Classy first post. Where did you say your season ticket was for?

[Scott1]

Haha! Goldsmith mate,classy or not it's the truth and one echoed by many supporters i talk to there and on the train to and from. If you can pick holes in the post please do but forums and blogs are made for folk to present their views and opinions,as long as I'm not booing at the ground it's all good. What's your take on him?

[sapajo]

It's plain to see from our recent forward signings that Mauger wanted leaner faster more powerful athletic forwards that fit the All Black model. Mike Williams, Barrow and Genge have the potential and possibly O'Connor but that's it. It begs the question can we ever afford to sign forwards of such quality to bring about the rugby holy grail that Tigers are searching for?

PS is the vacant No 8 slot being gapped for Freddie Tuilagi Jnr?

[ellis9]

Can we afford them?

If the salary cap is adhered to by every team and those that don't are heavily punished (1point deduction for every £1000 over the cap) then yes we can. Otherwise, we cannot afford the very top players.

[fleabane]

So JG has shown his true colours at last - "I have lost patience with the new SH style, frankly". Does that explain a dislike of anyone critical of what is happening now?

There are many of us who insisted that we were being left behind in our style of play, which had been worked out by other clubs, and that we had no plan "B".

Maugers appointment was generally welcomed because of the hopes and expectations that he would bring a change. It has now been a season and a half, enough time for the changes to the squad and tactics to become embedded. For whatever the reasons, this has not happened, skills levels are in need of improvement, commitment is visibly lacking on the field and recruitment seems haphazard.

I want to see this club successful again because, as well as being a critic of what is happening, I am a supporter too.

Going backwards in the way we play is not an option. If the current approach is not working, which it clearly isn't, changes have to be made, whether it be to playing staff, coaching staff or upstairs. There is something wrong which is not going to improve by itself - a basic business principle, as is not repeating the mistakes of the past by adhering to an outmoded system of play.

[L Smith]

Haha! Goldsmith mate,classy or not it's the truth and one echoed by many supporters i talk to there and on the train to and from. If you can pick holes in the post please do but forums and blogs are made for folk to present their views and opinions,as long as I'm not booing at the ground it's all good. What's your take on him?

My take for what it's worth is that he's a top bloke who's had a difficult job to do in an environment that's changed significantly during his tenure, and although his like for like resources have reduced, expectations have not.
My thought process on the whole current set up has changed. I've always believed that the bedrock of the club is its philosophy on being a profitable business. I'm starting to accept that this puts us at a disadvantage compared to benefactor-backed clubs. I don't think making massive losses (Sarries) or taking on huge debts (Wasps) is a sensible way forward, however, the PLC model forces certain disciplines that hinder our ability to compete.
The dilemma that we all face is, do we manage our expectations while we wait for the Wray's and Craig's to get bored or do we think that a different business model and philosophy is inevitable?
Ps, welcome to the forum!

[mol2]

I suspect we stand a greater chance of signing a new coach and DOR for next season if we announce the availability now. Wait for the end of the season and most will have signed new contracts.

Knowing there is an opportunity at the biggest club in England may influence whether they sign contracts elsewhere.

Why did some of the previous outside coaches fail with the exception of Bob Dwyer fail?
Perhaps he was the only one abrasive enough to deal with those within who felt they should have a say in how the team was run?
The word is Loffreda was undermined from within but only those involved really know.
As for Meyer that's when the aimless kicking game that has blighted Tigers for seasons started, but was that really him?

[wormus]

PS is the vacant No 8 slot being gapped for Henry Tuilagi?

I sincerely hope not Henry is way past it and played 52 games & scored 40 points not really new blood!
Henry Tuilagi has made a real impact in the back row since joining his elder brother Fereti when at Leicester. He made 24 first team appearances in his first season, scoring a try on his debut in the opening game against London Irish, and has since consolidated his position both in the team and as a favourite of the fans. His 2004/05 season was cruelly cut short, however, when he suffered a broken leg in the final home Premiership match against London Wasps in April.

Henry previously played for Italian club Parma, where his younger brother Alesana had joined him for a season. He appeared for Parma against London Wasps at High Wycombe in the first round of the European Challenge Cup, and then at Caerphilly in the quarter final of the same competition in January 2003. The No.8 was first included in the Samoa squad for the 2000 Pacific Rim Championship, but had to wait another two years for his test debut against Fiji in Apia, Samoa in June 2002.

[sapajo]

PS is the vacant No 8 slot being gapped for Henry Tuilagi?

I sincerely hope not Henry is way past it and played 52 games & scored 40 points not really new blood!
Henry Tuilagi has made a real impact in the back row since joining his elder brother Fereti when at Leicester. He made 24 first team appearances in his first season, scoring a try on his debut in the opening game against London Irish, and has since consolidated his position both in the team and as a favourite of the fans. His 2004/05 season was cruelly cut short, however, when he suffered a broken leg in the final home Premiership match against London Wasps in April.

Henry previously played for Italian club Parma, where his younger brother Alesana had joined him for a season. He appeared for Parma against London Wasps at High Wycombe in the first round of the European Challenge Cup, and then at Caerphilly in the quarter final of the same competition in January 2003. The No.8 was first included in the Samoa squad for the 2000 Pacific Rim Championship, but had to wait another two years for his test debut against Fiji in Apia, Samoa in June 2002.

Complete brain fart I meant Freddie Tuilagi Jnr.

[h's dad]

PS is the vacant No 8 slot being gapped for Henry Tuilagi?

I sincerely hope not Henry is way past it and played 52 games & scored 40 points not really new blood!
Henry Tuilagi has made a real impact in the back row since joining his elder brother Fereti when at Leicester. He made 24 first team appearances in his first season, scoring a try on his debut in the opening game against London Irish, and has since consolidated his position both in the team and as a favourite of the fans. His 2004/05 season was cruelly cut short, however, when he suffered a broken leg in the final home Premiership match against London Wasps in April.

Henry previously played for Italian club Parma, where his younger brother Alesana had joined him for a season. He appeared for Parma against London Wasps at High Wycombe in the first round of the European Challenge Cup, and then at Caerphilly in the quarter final of the same competition in January 2003. The No.8 was first included in the Samoa squad for the 2000 Pacific Rim Championship, but had to wait another two years for his test debut against Fiji in Apia, Samoa in June 2002.

Complete brain fart I meant Freddie Tuilagi Jnr.

I'm sure we all knew who you meant. Although there is a Henry Junior a little younger than Freddie Junior.

[BFG]

New poster,ST holder. Hello ladies and gentleman! I'm afraid his time is up,stick a fork in him. The proof is in the pudding,he's took us from AP winners to losing finalists to losing SFist so what more proof do you want. We are shocking to watch,the defence is awful but that's alright as long as he's got his 3 front rows! Got rid of 3 number 8s making our BR painfully underpowered and McGuigan over Thacker for me is just a ridiculous call,I genuinely hope this is his last season,we are going backwards now at an alarming rate and the run we were just on papered over the cracks and was inflated by AWC games and a poor Quins and Saints. Goodbye Cockers and don't let the door hit you on the on the way out!

This is precisely the sort of decision making leading to a lack of cohesion suggested by some.
McGuigan over Thacker isn't ridiculous, what is ridiculous is playing Thacker for several weeks and only giving McGuigan limited game time, and then dropping Thacker and throwing McGuigan in at the deep end in Munster.
Same with Kitto and Harrison.
I can't fathom some of it but it often looks like too many cooks to me.

[Offside]

I really do not know what to think about Saturdays performance. I was due to be in Ireland on Friday and was going to stay over for the match. As it was domestic arrangements deemed I changed my plans and went over and back on Tuesday. I am glad it turned out that way as it would have been a waste of part of my life watching that performance. The question is why did it happen?
Some poor defending again - Genge a mile too far from the ruck. High (poor) body position in attack - Genge and OTY. Single receivers moving slowly (all of them), if at all, and no support runners.
I would like to know how detailed the after match analysis is. Each element needs to be discussed and people told NEVER to do that again when a mistake is made. Slow ball with scrum halves waving at forwards to get into the right place. There are 8 of them. If they run in pairs and 4 are down in the ruck then there should be 2 on each side ready to give options. I do not think Leicester are up to running round the corner to surprise defenders currently!
These guys are professionals so they have no other jobs. Before the switch on the PlayStation after training to play FIFA they need to know the Laws book and study the opposition for the next game until they know every move in the opposition play book and all in our own.

I hope some of the past players are asked to have a debrief with the current ones to find out what is happening. Ben Kay needs to do a phone round and either talk to Cockers and Mauger or the board depending on what he is told. If Cohen was bartering Burns for Ford then this level of player commitment may be a result.

On a more positive note (?) if you read the excellent Tigers History Book (Past Christmas Present) you will see some of the great past teams got stuffed periodically. The question is when does periodically become too regularly? Saturday?