The Local Derby v Saints!

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Hot_Charlie
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Re: The Local Derby v Saints!

Post by Hot_Charlie » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:20 pm

Old Hob wrote:Our inability to cross the line from their 5m line is a worry.
It must be no coincidence that the warm up today consisted of fewer line-out catch and drive drills but several "new", one metre out, pick and drive drills.

Worth did well. OW is actually developing nicely as a 12; something he maybe didn't do so much last time he had a run there last season. Brady worked his backside off during Thompstone's yellow (interestingly the armchair experts of the internet say it should have been red, disputed the blatant jump into the tackle from North).

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Re: The Local Derby v Saints!

Post by tigercaspian » Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:39 am

jgriffin wrote:
mightymouse wrote:This business of players jumping into tackles and claiming foul has to be stopped. It is ruining the game and making elements of games into non contact sport. There was no need for North to jump for that ball and what is Thommo supposed to do? Dematerialise?

The first duty of care should be to yourself. Once upon a time you where not allowed to jump a tackle. Now you can jump into and out of them and get the other poor b...... sent off. Absolute nonsense! Stop it now!
Total agreement. A licence for rogues - I can remember the Scots lad being sent off when he was confronted by a flying player with his boots leading.

Also BTW we now have a 10/12 combination to rival Cipriani/Gopperth as the best in the AP and further afield. To'omua? Ford? Who?

Glad it wasn't just me who thought 'What is Thompstone supposed to do?' with North flying through the air at him. Tombstone clearly didn't know where he was until North hit him and even then he made hardly any attempt to tackle North, just absorbing the blow.

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Re: The Local Derby v Saints!

Post by joeybside » Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:04 am

strawclearer wrote:
mol2 wrote:With those selections you wonder if there are a few knocks being carried and I wouldn't be surprised if the 23 changes before kick off.
...talking of which - rumours on the Ultras that OTY is out injured

We only deal with facts. Seems his troubling spasms of before haven't completely gone away
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MikeR
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Re: The Local Derby v Saints!

Post by MikeR » Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:37 am

Ordinary performance , just the better of 2 poor teams . The backs have nil creativity and we just rely on individual brilliance from Burns and hard work from Thompstone . Neither of our understudy 9's are good enough to start - both play well for 20 mins at the end of the game .Defence is much better and we dogged it out - but Saints probably had 7 or 8 1st choices missing from their pack and still were better . Slater and Hamilton did well .

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Re: The Local Derby v Saints!

Post by SIBARITE » Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:08 am

tigercaspian wrote:
jgriffin wrote:
mightymouse wrote:This business of players jumping into tackles and claiming foul has to be stopped. It is ruining the game and making elements of games into non contact sport. There was no need for North to jump for that ball and what is Thommo supposed to do? Dematerialise?

The first duty of care should be to yourself. Once upon a time you where not allowed to jump a tackle. Now you can jump into and out of them and get the other poor b...... sent off. Absolute nonsense! Stop it now!
Total agreement. A licence for rogues - I can remember the Scots lad being sent off when he was confronted by a flying player with his boots leading.

Also BTW we now have a 10/12 combination to rival Cipriani/Gopperth as the best in the AP and further afield. To'omua? Ford? Who?

Glad it wasn't just me who thought 'What is Thompstone supposed to do?' with North flying through the air at him. Tombstone clearly didn't know where he was until North hit him and even then he made hardly any attempt to tackle North, just absorbing the blow.
Not true. Thompstone lifts his arm to catch the legs of North after he has caught the ball. The video is available on line. It easily could have cost us the game had it been the red that many felt it was. A poor performance. We have lost ground by failing to secure a try bonus point against a side that are struggling, as we did with Bristol. The play off's look unlikely.

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Re: The Local Derby v Saints!

Post by sam16111986 » Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:35 am

MikeR wrote:Ordinary performance , just the better of 2 poor teams . The backs have nil creativity and we just rely on individual brilliance from Burns and hard work from Thompstone . Neither of our understudy 9's are good enough to start - both play well for 20 mins at the end of the game .Defence is much better and we dogged it out - but Saints probably had 7 or 8 1st choices missing from their pack and still were better . Slater and Hamilton did well .
Saints were missing 7 or 8? I make it five although I'd argue Hill is a better tighthead than Brookes and Haywood has kept Hartley on the bench a couple of times with his form. So possibly less than 5. We were missing half of our starting pack.

Saints weren't better. If they were better then why did they spend most of the second half on their own try line? Saints despite having big names like North and Foden had even less attacking cohesion than us and we plain bullied them up front.

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Re: The Local Derby v Saints!

Post by voice of the crumbie » Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:17 am

2 things.

1. I agree with those who say that North jumped into the tackle that got Thompstone yellow carded and further agree that it is something that should be stopped.

2. The Saints try was a blatant double movement and should have been disallowed. Replays on the big screen showed the ball stationary the wrong side of the line for several seconds before their hooker reached out to place it over the try line. Crass and incorrect decision by TMO and J P Doyle. Correct decision would have been no try and penalty to Tigers for the double movement.
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Re: The Local Derby v Saints!

Post by baz1664 » Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:38 am

Fully agree that North jumped into Thompstone and he could do nothing about it, that was not an aerial contest and North was clearly playing the fake injured card.

Burns was outstanding and ran the show, impressed by Hamilton at 8, tackle machine, Worth was solid at full back, good decision making and looks for the line breaks.

Tigers performance was nothing special, a win is a win but we look lost when we have try scoring chances, the slow head down ruck to the line just doesn't work!!

Thought Doyle was awful, Saints try was a double movement, the high tackle by Hanrahan should have been a yellow card, was worse than Burrells and the TMO even called it but ignored, massively inconsistent performance.

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Re: The Local Derby v Saints!

Post by mol2 » Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:20 am

We're the backs lacking creativity or did the forwards belligerently keep hanging onto the ball?

We were camped on their try line with Burns and Manu in space yet the forwards kept ineffectivly driving around the ruck.
If you were defending with most of your team tied up in a ruck, the thing you would least like to see would be the ball spun out to either of those two.

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Re: The Local Derby v Saints!

Post by BeeJ » Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:22 am

baz1664 wrote:Thought Doyle was awful, Saints try was a double movement, the high tackle by Hanrahan should have been a yellow card, was worse than Burrells and the TMO even called it but ignored, massively inconsistent performance.
Don't start throwing rocks at me for this as I'm only going by what I heard on the ref mike.

1. JP Doyle was happy with the Saints' try as, to use his words, the player (Haywood) didn't attempt to lever his body forward and he simply reached out to the try line.

2. According to JP Doyle, Hanrahan's tackle started at chest height and then rose up to take Williams round the neck.

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Re: The Local Derby v Saints!

Post by Snorbins » Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:08 pm

Thought Thacker played a good game, line out iffy at times, but still a forced to be reckoned with at turnovers and nipping between players legs! Certainly don't want to see him go.

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Re: The Local Derby v Saints!

Post by BFG » Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:35 pm

baz1664 wrote:Fully agree that North jumped into Thompstone and he could do nothing about it, that was not an aerial contest and North was clearly playing the fake injured card.

Burns was outstanding and ran the show, impressed by Hamilton at 8, tackle machine, Worth was solid at full back, good decision making and looks for the line breaks.

Tigers performance was nothing special, a win is a win but we look lost when we have try scoring chances, the slow head down ruck to the line just doesn't work!!

Thought Doyle was awful, Saints try was a double movement, the high tackle by Hanrahan should have been a yellow card, was worse than Burrells and the TMO even called it but ignored, massively inconsistent performance.
I'm not picking on your comment baz but I'm going to go against the grain on this incident on here and your first sentence sort of helps me explain why because as you say there was no aerial contest.
I think Thompstone needed to go up in the air and compete on a level with North or simply get out of the way if he could not compete and that's about the crux of it.
There was nothing Thompstone could do to avoid the clash because he was in the way, you can't take a player in the air out and it doesn't matter if you can't avoid it, point is you must compete fairly or avoid it, so get out of the way or get there quicker, read the bounce better and compete in the air on a level.

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Re: The Local Derby v Saints!

Post by WhitecapTiger » Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:39 pm

SIBARITE wrote:Not true. Thompstone lifts his arm to catch the legs of North after he has caught the ball.
Agree, but still think a Yellow card was possibly harsh considering one player jumped into another, not equivalent to a player jumping for a ball and another running through him.
SIBARITE wrote: It easily could have cost us the game had it been the red that many felt it was. A poor performance.
It didn't. I presume you thought it was a red then? The 'many' were the Saints supporters.......It was nowhere near a red card for me. North landed on his side - JP Doyle's words = yellow card.
SIBARITE wrote: A poor performance.
Yet still good enough in that particular derby match, the kind of games where thrashing it out is often the way. Just depends what kind of spin particular people wish to put on a situation, if you wish to pour scorn then scorn is easy to find.
SIBARITE wrote: We have lost ground by failing to secure a try bonus point against a side that are struggling, as we did with Bristol.
Have we? We may have missed an opportunity but 'lost ground'? Bath won (just) without a TBP (so no ground lost), Sarries Lost (Ground gained), Exeter blew a big chance for a TBP (so no ground lost) the only ones we 'could' lose ground to are Wasps but at the time of your statement they haven't played.

Unless by 'We' you are meaning someone other than Tigers....
SIBARITE wrote:The play off's look unlikely.
The play off's what look unlikely? :smt002 Seriously though, the pay offs are nowhere near decided yet. Next run of games will be pivotal but anything can happen. I'll not use the "Nothing is decided / won before Christmas" cliché but any reasonable person can see that, unless of course they are so inclined to wallow in self pity or wave false flags.

The only game that Tigers should be concentrating on is the next game (cliché time), which I'm sure they will be, guess they'll leave all the crazy speculation to the media (looking for the next 'sensational headline') and those supporters with a 'Give me it now' mentality.

Not a great overall performance but a derby win with added bonus of taking away their LBP with the last kick of the game.
Last edited by WhitecapTiger on Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:51 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: The Local Derby v Saints!

Post by WhitecapTiger » Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:44 pm

BFG wrote:I think Thompstone needed to go up in the air and compete on a level with North or simply get out of the way if he could not compete and that's about the crux of it.
Thompstone was tracking back to the ball, bounce caught him out and turned him, by which time North had launched. Quite how Thommo could have gone up in the air to compete I'm unsure about, difficult to get out of the way too whilst turning and not knowing where the airborne winger was.

Natural human reaction to raise arms and he did move a bit, take the yellow card and move on. I still think there're arguments in Thommo's favour for penalty only or no sanction at all - just an unfortunate incident that looked worse when North landed and didn't move.
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Re: The Local Derby v Saints!

Post by Hot_Charlie » Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:56 pm

MikeR wrote: - but Saints probably had 7 or 8 1st choices missing from their pack
No they didn't. Most would agree that Haywood's been their better hooker over the past season anyway. They were missing Lawes, Wood and Harrison and the 1st/2nd choice decision of Brooke's over Hill is probably the toss of a coin. Gibson and Nutley are hardly poor replacements either.

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