Calum Clark - Again!

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jgriffin
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Re: Calum Clark - Again!

Post by jgriffin » Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:02 am

You won't affect the Whingers, they seem to connect historical bad behaviour - every club and nation has a massive list from the 70s-90s for a start - with a serial cheap shot merchant whose cheap shots are far from handbags. So why condemn waterboarding in the light of WW2, JFK's assassination in the light of that of Spencer Percival (occupational hazard) etc? I always find the spurious moral logic of the Whingers fascinating as a case study and quite useful to get 6th form students to debate.
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Re: Calum Clark - Again!

Post by h's dad » Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:53 am

SIBARITE wrote:
Southerntiger wrote:Shock horror

Bloke in testosterone filled sport pushes the line bit too far while getting cheered on by thousands of fans

Dorian West gouged Austin Healy horrifically while playing for Nottingham vs Orrell
Healey narrowly escaped prison for assault and broke jaw of a bloke with a headbutt completely unprovoked
Cockerill got invited to a local rugby club dinner, had a hotel paid for by club and looked after well. He throws food at guests and lamps people randomly on night out for no reason
Johnson got done for stamping on a Scottish players face and other horrific offences over the years

Need I go on?

You could but you'd be wasting your time. Embedded prejudice is very hard to change. I for one applaud your efforts. :smt023
You applaud describing Clark's behaviour as a 'bit too far'?
I'm sure most of us would describe all of the instances listed as completely unacceptable*, particularly in the modern game.

* bit of a caveat on the MJ incident if you're referring to John Leslie in 1999 - Johnson said it was accidental and that Leslie had turned his head towards his foot as he was rucking legitimately. This was accepted by many on all sides. Johnson has been punished on a number of occasions for his behaviour, not without reason, more severely than Clark and for lesser offences. Why? When this sort of behaviour is supposed to be less acceptable now than it was two or three decades ago?
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Re: Calum Clark - Again!

Post by strawclearer » Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:23 pm

Cagey Tiger wrote:So what? You trot out these previous incidents as if everybody else condones them (because they were done by Tigers players?). What a load of rubbish. They are not things that I had heard of before, but presuming they are true, I condemn the lot, so you both can get off your holier than though horses :smt013
Totally agree CT - but I wouldn't waste your time.
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[email protected]
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Re: Calum Clark - Again!

Post by [email protected] » Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:29 pm

If that had been at "grassroots" level the player in question would have had the book thrown at him or her (closely followed by the kitchen sink).
He really must have a taken some lovely biscuits to the hearing.
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Re: Calum Clark - Again!

Post by SIBARITE » Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:06 pm

jgriffin wrote:You won't affect the Whingers, they seem to connect historical bad behaviour - every club and nation has a massive list from the 70s-90s for a start - with a serial cheap shot merchant whose cheap shots are far from handbags. So why condemn waterboarding in the light of WW2, JFK's assassination in the light of that of Spencer Percival (occupational hazard) etc? I always find the spurious moral logic of the Whingers fascinating as a case study and quite useful to get 6th form students to debate.
Really? JFKs assassination is relevant to Clarkes elbowing.

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Re: Calum Clark - Again!

Post by Skin_and_Muscle » Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:25 pm

SIBARITE wrote:
jgriffin wrote:You won't affect the Whingers, they seem to connect historical bad behaviour - every club and nation has a massive list from the 70s-90s for a start - with a serial cheap shot merchant whose cheap shots are far from handbags. So why condemn waterboarding in the light of WW2, JFK's assassination in the light of that of Spencer Percival (occupational hazard) etc? I always find the spurious moral logic of the Whingers fascinating as a case study and quite useful to get 6th form students to debate.
Really? JFKs assassination is relevant to Clarkes elbowing.
Come on now, you know what jgriffin was getting at.
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Re: Calum Clark - Again!

Post by Jacko27 » Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:45 pm

JFK cf Callum Clarke. I think you are missing the point Sybarite. JG's point (if I understand it) is that it's silly to morally justify or condemn actions in the present by randomly picking out actions from the past. My Dad refused to wear a seat belt, my parents' generation automatically lit cigarettes in other people's houses, my inlaws routinely (and non-maliciously) used racist language. What seemed OK then seems wrong now and in rugby terms what might have been acceptable (or even praiseworthy) conduct, say, between front rowers in the Welsh valleys in the 70's would be completely unacceptable now. Why? Partly because of a general cultural change and also because we know far more about the real physical consequences of slapping mud in people's eyes and collapsing scrums.

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Re: Calum Clark - Again!

Post by SIBARITE » Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:53 pm

Skin_and_Muscle wrote:
SIBARITE wrote:
jgriffin wrote:You won't affect the Whingers, they seem to connect historical bad behaviour - every club and nation has a massive list from the 70s-90s for a start - with a serial cheap shot merchant whose cheap shots are far from handbags. So why condemn waterboarding in the light of WW2, JFK's assassination in the light of that of Spencer Percival (occupational hazard) etc? I always find the spurious moral logic of the Whingers fascinating as a case study and quite useful to get 6th form students to debate.
Really? JFKs assassination is relevant to Clarkes elbowing.
Come on now, you know what jgriffin was getting at.
My point is and has been throughout this thread is that Clarke is unreasonably castigated on this forum while equally foul play by others is hardly mentioned. Clarke is not any worse than a dozen or so other premiership players. The use of histrionic hyperbole in relation to him is unsavoury to say the least. Time to get over Calum Clarke.

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Re: Calum Clark - Again!

Post by Jacko27 » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:03 pm

Yes. Agree with both those points. I suppose tribal loyalties shape selective memories and you're right: time to move on.
ps At least we won't have to see CC on Dec 3rd!

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Re: Calum Clark - Again!

Post by h's dad » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:04 pm

SIBARITE wrote:
Skin_and_Muscle wrote:
SIBARITE wrote:<<"jgriffin">>You won't affect the Whingers, they seem to connect historical bad behaviour - every club and nation has a massive list from the 70s-90s for a start - with a serial cheap shot merchant whose cheap shots are far from handbags. So why condemn waterboarding in the light of WW2, JFK's assassination in the light of that of Spencer Percival (occupational hazard) etc? I always find the spurious moral logic of the Whingers fascinating as a case study and quite useful to get 6th form students to debate.<<>>

Really? JFKs assassination is relevant to Clarkes elbowing.
Come on now, you know what jgriffin was getting at.
My point is and has been throughout this thread is that Clarke is unreasonably castigated on this forum while equally foul play by others is hardly mentioned. Clarke is not any worse than a dozen or so other premiership players. The use of histrionic hyperbole in relation to him is unsavoury to say the least. Time to get over Calum Clarke.
1. Surely the lesson is that all foul behaviour (note absence of 'play'), especially by repeat offenders, should be castigated rather than letting Clark off on the grounds that he is not the only one?
2. This thread would be a lot shorter without the dubious value of your contributions.
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Re: Calum Clark - Again!

Post by grobyman » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:10 pm

The dozen or so other premiership players Siberite refers to don't play for Saints though!! :smt002

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Re: Calum Clark - Again!

Post by h's dad » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:17 pm

grobyman wrote:The dozen or so other premiership players Siberite refers to don't play for Saints though!! :smt002
Could we have a draft list then, please?
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Re: Calum Clark - Again!

Post by h's dad » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:40 pm

[email protected] wrote:If that had been at "grassroots" level the player in question would have had the book thrown at him or her (closely followed by the kitchen sink).
He really must have a taken some lovely biscuits to the hearing.
Regrettably I cannot agree with you wholeheartedly Spike. At grassroots a lot of 'feistiness' comes when one or both sides have players who are not fully conversant with the regulations and this is pretty much part of the game. Unfortunately you occasionally get some thug who just wants to hospitalise random players in off the ball incidents and sometimes the referees at this level are simply incapable of handling them effectively. Very rare in my experience but perhaps therefore more shocking when it happens.
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Re: Calum Clark - Again!

Post by ourla » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:42 pm

SIBARITE wrote:Time to get over Calum Clarke.
Most had until he tried to elbow another players head whilst they were lying on the floor. That brought a few memories back.
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Re: Calum Clark - Again!

Post by ourla » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:43 pm

h's dad wrote:
grobyman wrote:The dozen or so other premiership players Siberite refers to don't play for Saints though!! :smt002
Could we have a draft list then, please?
Yes, I'd like to see that list aswell.
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