The Play Offs are short changing the supporters

[fortysix]

As an avid Tigers Supporter since I first went there in 1951----- my Father was the oldest ever Tiger on debut----------- it saddens me when one realises that with Play offs in the equation, the Coaches target matches for wins, and matches they dont expect to win.

So if the Coaches dont really expect anything from a match such as today, how on earth are the players going to react if they subconsciously think along the same wavelength ?

I realise the rugby world is changing, far too many matches, players bigger and stronger than is good for them, much shorter careers, but expecting the Tigers to actually lose was never once in my supporters brain until it dawned on me a few years ago that certain matches were write-offs

Maybe this is why England are light years behind New Zealand...
The Play Offs are actually degrading Rugby supporters, and the players, because of throwaway matches

What are the Forums thoughts ?

[fleabane]

I'm in complete agreement.

[Tigerbeat]

Its very difficult to get a good balance. It is good to see full strehngth teams put out but there is no prize for finishing top. I agree with the play offs, whilst League matches are played during international weekends.
The game is now professional and clubs need regular income. The game is also a different beast and players welfare needs to be monitored so some are rested at times.

[tigercaspian]

And me.
Unfair that the team that wins the league (by however many points) can get stiffed.
Unfair on the players.
And a rip-off for the supporters

[sapajo]

I concur, frankly it was clear to me that today's match and no doubt others were written off as soon as the fixtures were announced. This approach has been engendered by the play off system. Whilst I empathise with Tigerbeats post its galling if you are a supporter having payed hard earned cash to travel to and watch a dead rubber.

[Southerntiger]

I find some of these views absolutely baffling. Removing the playoffs would punish teams who produce England players and incentivise teams who have non-international players i.e. Has Beens like matfield and de VILLIERS. Also I think we are extrapolating a Leicester problem to the whole of England, Leicester are petrified of playing Saracens and know they are going to use. The issue comes back to our recruitment and academy who are just not producing the goods. Saracens produce class and never go into a match, expecting to lose. We do because we have too many ordinary players. As McCall just said about recruiting a second row to plug their crisis, "we won't recruit ordinary players". Whereas Leicester do, see Luke Hamilton, Owen Williams, Jack Roberts, George Catchpole, Tom Brady etc etc

[Soggypitch]

I find some of these views absolutely baffling. Removing the playoffs would punish teams who produce England players and incentivise teams who have non-international players i.e. Has Beens like matfield and de VILLIERS. Also I think we are extrapolating a Leicester problem to the whole of England, Leicester are petrified of playing Saracens and know they are going to use. The issue comes back to our recruitment and academy who are just not producing the goods. Saracens produce class and never go into a match, expecting to lose. We do because we have too many ordinary players. As McCall just said about recruiting a second row to plug their crisis, "we won't recruit ordinary players". Whereas Leicester do, see Luke Hamilton, Owen Williams, Jack Roberts, George Catchpole, Tom Brady etc etc

That's a fair point. Sarries seem to be able to produce great players from their academy, plus do good recruitment. We can do neither at present. Again I'm afraid it is the responsibility of the coaches and ultimately the DOR.

[SIBARITE]

Its very difficult to get a good balance. It is good to see full strehngth teams put out but there is no prize for finishing top. I agree with the play offs, whilst League matches are played during international weekends.
The game is now professional and clubs need regular income. The game is also a different beast and players welfare needs to be monitored so some are rested at times.

Its always follow the party line and squeeze the money to the last penny. For me its clear. Top team wins. Why are the runners up given a second chance? I know the answer is money but its a slap in the face for a fair competitive league competition. After years of being promoted as one of the countries most wealthy clubs we are now put forward by club appointees as being poor relations. Its just not true.

[Cagey Tiger]

The play-offs may be short changing the supporters a little, but not as much as the alternatives that I can think of.

As Southerntiger points out, without them, if the clubs played during the AIs and 6N, they would move away from using international players, to lower quality players. Both the clubs and England (as most English players play in England) would suffer.

Or, if the clubs stopped playing during the AIs and 6N, there would have to be fewer club games to still allow for a summer break, leading to less income for the clubs, making them less competitive in the player market. Hopefully, other potential ramifications of lower income are fairly obvious.

[Cagey Tiger]

For me its clear. Top team wins.

To me this is being rather short sighted. See my previous post as to what would happen in the various scenarios that I could envisage. Yes, the top team would win, but what would be the standard of the league? Decidedly lower.

[MrPartridge]

This post reads like the playoffs are some new entity, not an established system.

Of course, we can go back to top of the league wins the title, but I fear that will mean stomaching a Saracens dynasty of 10 titles on the bounce!

I pay my season ticket and have been to home/away SFs and Finals at Twickenham. Happy to pay for the extra entertainment. Of course we know teams now target top 2 and top 4 rather than 1st, but imagine the old system where 'winner takes all'. A dominant side would win the league 2/3 weeks out and consign us to lots of dead rubbers at the end of the season. What would the current Tigers team be playing for other than Europe if the playoffs didn't exist?

[Tigerbeat]

Whilst I agree with the play offs under the current conditions, there should be some recignition for the team finishing top, as there is in rugby league.
The format is okay and keeps the competition live until the final day.

[SIBARITE]

Whilst I agree with the play offs under the current conditions, there should be some recignition for the team finishing top, as there is in rugby league.
The format is okay and keeps the competition live until the final day.

Hello! The final day is when any competition ends. Its now been orchestrated to last a little longer and dance to the tune of the money men and their lackeys. If Sarries have a long time at the top so be it. Introducing an extra element of chance to satisfy the money men of television (who make more than the clubs) is selling the soul of the a true league system. Having a nice trip to a semi final where we are soundly beaten is hardly justification of a poor system.

[Tigerbeat]

Sibarite, not sure what you are thinking.......I stated that the current format takes it to the final day and is not decided days or weeks.

[johnthegriff]

I agree with some of Southerntigers post. The play offs sole reason only justification is that clubs that produce international players are penalised when England games and training sessions coincide with club requirements meaning they have to spread the salary cap further or pay less to backup players. Sotherntiger is unfair when he lists academy graduates like George Catchpole or players recruited as young prospects like Jack Roberts and Owen Williams as examples of poor recruitment. Young players should be given the chance to develop.
I agree that the academy production line has not recently provided the quality of player that it has in the past but changes to the system have been made and it will take time as youngsters develop to see if the new regime is successful.