A real problem

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SirGordonRamsey
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A real problem

Post by SirGordonRamsey »

After listening to the Tigers podcast today, they mentioned Tigers simply do not have the money to get injury replacement for for the likes of Manu and Matt.

I believe Tigers is owned by shareholders and relies on its own revenue. Does this mean things like purchasing the car park are affecting team strength, especially in depth? Saracens are a prime example, after losing both their world class second rows, they make a bid for Eben Etzebeth.

We don't have an owner, we have a chairman in Simon Cohen. A quick Google for the name of the current sarries owner lead me to an artcile from 2008 stating: Billionaire set to pump £10m into Saracens.
In 2008 Sarries were sharing a pitch with Watford FC, until they moved into Allianz park.

How much is this going to effect us in the future?
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tigercaspian
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Re: A real problem

Post by tigercaspian »

Hopefully, we will continue to be well and prudently run on and off the pitch. Sarries only score on one of those fronts.
I am against the club recruiting 'star' players on short term contracts anyway. I don't see what special value amongst a starting line up of 23 brings-he'd have to be God-like to do that : upsets the balance of the Club: and as Toomua has shown it can take time to settle in, or worse, when yer star picks up an injury.
AlphaWiseOwl
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Re: A real problem

Post by AlphaWiseOwl »

The JB DeViliers signing is a another good example which did not exactly turn out to be the best thing since sliced bread. I am still waiting for JP Pietersen to light up the turf too.
Soggypitch
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Re: A real problem

Post by Soggypitch »

AlphaWiseOwl wrote:The JB DeViliers signing is a another good example which did not exactly turn out to be the best thing since sliced bread. I am still waiting for JP Pietersen to light up the turf too.
To be fair JPP has been one of our stand out players this season. He exudes class, makes good decisions, and rarely makes a mistake.

Ok he's not as quick as Wade, Habbana etc but the fact he's just been called up by South Africa for the autumn internationals, shows how highly regarded he is.
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Tiger_in_Birmingham
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Re: A real problem

Post by Tiger_in_Birmingham »

AlphaWiseOwl wrote:The JB DeViliers signing is a another good example which did not exactly turn out to be the best thing since sliced bread. I am still waiting for JP Pietersen to light up the turf too.
JPP was the star player in the first 4-6 weeks for Tigers.

He's not the flashiest of players but he's in the right place at the right time - a very good rugby brain
AidanMcDowell
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Re: A real problem

Post by AidanMcDowell »

"I believe Tigers is owned by shareholders and relies on its own revenue. Does this mean things like purchasing the car park are affecting team strength, especially in depth? Saracens are a prime example, after losing both their world class second rows, they make a bid for Eben Etzebeth."

I'm sure this is mentioned elsewhere on the Forum but according to this week's Rugby Paper, Saracens balked at Etzebeth's wage demands. He is now, apparently, considering an offer from Bristol who have cash to spare and sufficient room withing their salary cap to afford him.
Cagey Tiger
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Re: A real problem

Post by Cagey Tiger »

SirGordonRamsey wrote:I believe Tigers is owned by shareholders and relies on its own revenue. Does this mean things like purchasing the car park are affecting team strength, especially in depth?
Up until now, no. AFAIK, we have spent up to, or very close to, the salary cap and have been able to fund injury replacements. This is the first time that I recall hearing about being short of cash for players.

The loss last year was partly down to it being a World Cup year (a drop in income has happened every time).

As for the future, who knows?
tigercaspian
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Re: A real problem

Post by tigercaspian »

I wasn't thinking of JPP when I posted earlier as he is here on a two or three year deal and he will have time to make a proper contribution to the Club over that period. Like others though, I think he has done well so far.

If Bristol really are thinking of taking on Etzebeth for such a short period, I think they are mad. He is unlikely to get them to lift their form sufficiently in such a short and temporary period, they'll bung him a load of dosh, and still get relegated !!
RagingBull
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Re: A real problem

Post by RagingBull »

That's if they are actually telling the truth about not having the money.

Which personally I do not blieve one bit.

Prob Cockerill and Cohen way of not having every agent under the sun tout there player to them.
ellis9
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Re: A real problem

Post by ellis9 »

We will have the money within the salary cap for a new number 8 but injury dispensation is separate.
DickyP
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Re: A real problem

Post by DickyP »

If you read the rules for the Salary Cap and Injury dispensations it is not a simple matter of amount of money, which could make the Tigers 'unable to afford' replacements. Premiership Rugby Salary Regulations: Salary Year 2016-17 - See Clause 5 on page 20.

Things will be even worse in 2017/18 when the rules will explicitly restrict clubs to ONE such injury replacement!
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SirGordonRamsey
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Re: A real problem

Post by SirGordonRamsey »

DickyP wrote:If you read the rules for the Salary Cap and Injury dispensations it is not a simple matter of amount of money, which could make the Tigers 'unable to afford' replacements. Premiership Rugby Salary Regulations: Salary Year 2016-17 - See Clause 5 on page 20.

Things will be even worse in 2017/18 when the rules will explicitly restrict clubs to ONE such injury replacement!
You actually made me read that. Apparantly both got too much time on our hands :smt024

So this potentially confirms we do not have the ability to add another salary past out own original cap. Thats extremely sad if true, unable to be the club we want to be. Must effect recruitment massively, looking for potential utility players as constant future injury cover.

I do believe their is space for the 8 as mentioned. Carl Fearns now being mentioned elsewhere.

Why would they not be telling the truth about not having money? I can honestly see it now. Two seasons ago when we had Bai and Loamanu (woeful the pair) in the centres we didnt even try to find cover just waited to recruit the next season.

THIS SEASON!
check how many people have left and how many in:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_2 ... ter_Tigers

The math:
15 players out
Minus 3 Retired

Is 12 players leaving to different clubs.

7 players in. Thats 5 players unaccounted for, and we're hearing that we have no money!
We sign Manu on a record deal, Toomua and Peterson cant be cheap! And now with both out injured what purpose built class centre can we rely on to have some sort of top table mid field?
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ellis9
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Re: A real problem

Post by ellis9 »

There's also 8 other clubs alongside us that don't have the money to potentially spend over the current salary cap. There are 3 clubs in the league however, who can. That's just the way it is unfortunately.

As Cockerill would say- we just have to deal with it!
SirGordonRamsey
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Re: A real problem

Post by SirGordonRamsey »

ellis9 wrote:There's also 8 other clubs alongside us that don't have the money to potentially spend over the current salary cap. There are 3 clubs in the league however, who can. That's just the way it is unfortunately.

As Cockerill would say- we just have to deal with it!
Yeah its very true unfortunaly.

Makes you wonder how we can compete in the long run. And if we didnt make marque signings people would have been complaining anyway. One thing that is then an issue is if we are limited by cash why are we hiring injured players, JDV, Manu and Toomua. Granted, would rather have Manu and Toomua with us than playing against us.
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Tigerbeat
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Re: A real problem

Post by Tigerbeat »

JDV got an injury once he arrived, not related to his previous injury.
Toomua was signed when fit and suffered a knock during the Rugby Championship and was on the concussion programme. His injury on Sunday was just unfortunate so not really good examples of signing injured players.
Tait and Benjamin are good examples and the former has gone on to make a mark in the team.
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