Bring on Sarries! - Teams Up

[Southerntiger]

Anyone who is saying Jack Roberts had a good game today are clueless

Never drifts in defence, culpable for Wyles try and made no impact in attack. Are we seriously using a 5ft 8 centre as a crash ball merchant?

I dread to know what Tolofua is going to do to Tom Young's in the scrum next year. Man vs boy

[BFG]

Credit must go the Sarries coaching staff in my opinion, Hamilton did a job for them and was better than I expected, they seem to get out of him what they want.
Leicester's lineout was excellent against Racing but struggled today.

[BFG]

McCall, pre-match said that when they started the Saracens project 7 years ago it was Tigers they most admired.
Two things from that: SEVEN years and WAS. We now have a different team every week. McCall seemed genuinely shocked/disappointed by Ashton's decision to leave, "We
expect players to finish their careers with us if they are already here" Not like our revolving door then
Cockers calls for accuracy - we didn't have it.
We know we are playing a top side so opportunities are going to be rare yet Slater does things like give away an obvious penalty by dragging Hamilton's arm when they are the only two high in the air at a lineout; as if no-one would see!!!! Stupid, amateurish and taking all the pressure off Saracens instantly.

Dallaglio said: 4 times Tigers have been here with the same tactical plan...with the same result. He's not wrong. Madness is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
Rudderless is right.

I look at big Jim
Hamilton today with Saracens and wonder, as an ex-Leicester player I expect most would say that he didn't make the grade but if he is not as good as what is at Leicester currently then how come he outperformed them? Good coaching or other?

As for the improvement second half, missing Itoje and Kruis the Saracens intensity wasn't as long and hard as usual and they dropped down a few gears in my opinion after Rhodes and others went off.
Freddie and some of the other subs looked decent but to be fair to all they did get to sit and view what was going wrong for a second week and again Saracens intensity clearly dropped.

Er, just as well we didn't win last week then??
Mind you, if we'd had a full team out today we might have actually won this game! Obviously more relevant that Itoje and Kruis weren't playing though .
Sorry to hear that Sarries weren't trying second half : have you told them that?

Er, who said we lost last week?
People should learn to read properly before trying to be clever!

Itoje and Kruis being missing was relevant to our subs looking better than the starting players, it affected Sarries depth today.
Our injured players are just as relevant, it's obvious to any fool that they being missing affects our depth, but rather than binning Leicester's starting players and branding all the subs as our saviours as many are I think it's fair to point out that it wasn't Sarries best starting team if everyone is fit.
I should maybe state the obvious and add that it wasn't Tigers best starting team if everyone is fit, before some fool gets a complex!

[WhitecapTiger]

I think any idiot could see without Itoje and Kruis that the intensity wasn't quite the same.
Who said anything about a production line or other opportunistic drivel you've made up!

Regularly mentioned (Fora, Media, Rugby Blogs) that when Sarries lose a player, through injury or suspension, the next off the production line just steps up and slots in without any visible difference or loss of functionality - it's actually a huge compliment to your club.

But then, any 'idiot' could've read between lines and spotted the generalisation, or so I thought.

Naturally Itoje & Kruis are different, obviously this 'idiot' missed that, but the Sarries 'production line' usually copes.

Great retort though, cheap and harmless, but great nonetheless - I bow to your superiority.

[WhitecapTiger]

I think it's fair to point out that it wasn't Sarries best starting team if everyone is fit.

I don't think anyone has claimed that it was Sarrie's best starting team.

Thank you for coming to our rescue so recently.

[Soggypitch]

Well I was one of a handful of Tigers fans who did their best today to cheer the team on.

It was much better than the semi final, we fronted up, but we were out thought, out kicked and most worryingly out coached.
Their players are not that much better than ours, they just defend better, kick better, chase better and take their chances better.
QED: Better coaches.

Had a good day out at AP however, was a good atmosphere, not embarrassing like the semi final, we really fronted up, just not good enough.

[Jaybug1972]

First time poster and tigers season ticket holder!

I think first of all we have to give credit to a sarries team that are at the moment quite exceptional and can see them dominating for a good few years to come.

Something I've noticed over the past few years is that we lack intensity for 80 minutes, for every game of the season. All too often do we (whether personnel changes or not) get going in the last quarter of the game often when it is too late, or we bring our best game in one off situations as in last week against Racing.

Our kicking game has been weak for sometime now, most of the time finding the opposition player only to put ourselves in worse a position than when the ball left our hands. We very rarely chase the ball down either (with the exception of Betham and Vieanu at times) and put any pressure back on.

Owen Williams, sorry not good enough as a 10 and not convinced he makes a good 12 either. Freddie yes a lose canon but I'd take that for someone that can land that touch of creativity and generate momentum in a game. Fred needs to start and be our established 10.

Going to get shot down for this I guess, but Ben Youngs! Overrated in my opinion these days, predictable, slow ball and tactically inept. Maybe one of the best box kickers in the business but we need more from our scrum half, Sam Harrison (like Freddie) makes things happen and must start. Bens been a great servant to the club but time to move on Imo.

Thought yesterday Betham, McCafrey and Kitchener had good games. Kitchener is so underrated Imo, the guy is a man mountain and quick. I'd like to see Catchpole get some more game time too.

Flashes of good play yesterday, need to convert that to 80 minutes of intense rugby.

[SIBARITE]

Well I was one of a handful of Tigers fans who did their best today to cheer the team on.

It was much better than the semi final, we fronted up, but we were out thought, out kicked and most worryingly out coached.
Their players are not that much better than ours, they just defend better, kick better, chase better and take their chances better.
QED: Better coaches.

Had a good day out at AP however, was a good atmosphere, not embarrassing like the semi final, we really fronted up, just not good enough.

"Their players are not that much better than ours, they just defend better, kick better, chase better and take their chances better." Eh So they are better?

[Cagey Tiger]

Well I was one of a handful of Tigers fans who did their best today to cheer the team on.

It was much better than the semi final, we fronted up, but we were out thought, out kicked and most worryingly out coached.
Their players are not that much better than ours, they just defend better, kick better, chase better and take their chances better.
QED: Better coaches.

Had a good day out at AP however, was a good atmosphere, not embarrassing like the semi final, we really fronted up, just not good enough.

"Their players are not that much better than ours, they just defend better, kick better, chase better and take their chances better." Eh So they are better?

Which is what Soggypitch said. Just not that much better. What's difficult to understand in that?

[westwinds31]

First time poster and tigers season ticket holder!

I think first of all we have to give credit to a sarries team that are at the moment quite exceptional and can see them dominating for a good few years to come.

Something I've noticed over the past few years is that we lack intensity for 80 minutes, for every game of the season. All too often do we (whether personnel changes or not) get going in the last quarter of the game often when it is too late, or we bring our best game in one off situations as in last week against Racing.

Our kicking game has been weak for sometime now, most of the time finding the opposition player only to put ourselves in worse a position than when the ball left our hands. We very rarely chase the ball down either (with the exception of Betham and Vieanu at times) and put any pressure back on.

Owen Williams, sorry not good enough as a 10 and not convinced he makes a good 12 either. Freddie yes a lose canon but I'd take that for someone that can land that touch of creativity and generate momentum in a game. Fred needs to start and be our established 10.

Going to get shot down for this I guess, but Ben Youngs! Overrated in my opinion these days, predictable, slow ball and tactically inept. Maybe one of the best box kickers in the business but we need more from our scrum half, Sam Harrison (like Freddie) makes things happen and must start. Bens been a great servant to the club but time to move on Imo.

Thought yesterday Betham, McCafrey and Kitchener had good games. Kitchener is so underrated Imo, the guy is a man mountain and quick. I'd like to see Catchpole get some more game time too.

Flashes of good play yesterday, need to convert that to 80 minutes of intense rugby.

Whilst I don't agree with you regarding Youngs, I agree about Williams. Not good enough. Average when at 12, for me he's increasingly looking like a rabbit in headlights, panics a lot under pressure and makes too many mistakes. Goal kicking is one thing, but you never see him make many clean breaks and Burns footwork and vision are better. I'm sure this is the Cockers influence. Cockers I'm positive will begrudgingly admit Burns has some genius moments but will point to his maverick tendencies whereas Owen is more of a Cockers back, if there is such a thing !! Conservative, kicks his goals, plays the percentages (not very well recently).

This where the Cockers vs Mauger thing intrigues me. It's a balance of flair vs old school dog. We can go back to basics for one game but can't play it the week after. It's such a shame Toomua wasn't there yesterday, would he have guided us to the losing bonus in that period near the end ? Who knows.

[ellis9]

Slow ball from Ben Youngs? What?

I have looked at the highlights and on most rucks I actually counted about 2 to 3 seconds from when the ruck was formed to when Youngs passed the ball. If you think that's slow ball then there's no helping you. Also, you can't have quick ball all the time, sometimes you do need to slow it down a bit. I think Youngs had a good game.

[Old Hob]

Quote:" It's such a shame Toomua wasn't there yesterday, would he have guided us to the losing bonus in that period near the end ? "

On his current form, he would have tripped over his own bootlaces and headbutted one of our players

[baz1664]

From reading previous posts i read that the big difference between Sarries and Tigers is the standard of coaching, I think this is spot on, the McCall, Sanderson and Gustard team before he went to England are world class, Saracens are a well drilled unit who have a game plan and stick to it, each player knows the roll they have to play and the defensive structure is outstanding, tigers on the other hand look clueless and look lost for large parts of the game, the set piece crumbles under pressure, a kicking game that offers nothing accept more pressure, Tigers do have a talented squad with quality players but behind the scenes the coaching seems sub standard, yesterday would have been a cricket score if Sarries had kept on it for the full 80 minutes, looks like the LV cup is our best shout for silverware this year!!!

[MrPartridge]

Finding it hard to concur with some that it was a good performance. Maybe better than last few visits to AP and Glasgow, but they were in control from the starts and we never looked like winning.

The negatives: starting forwards didn't front up. Not to reignite the No 8 debate but we desperately need a ball carrier. I also feel Cole and Marcos (great servants) are on the wane: certainly no front row dominance or decent carriers from either. OW had a mare! I said kicking would be key and it was totally aimless: Ben Youngs also contributing greatly to that.

The positives: Fred showed why he should be starting 10. However, we played better in the last 20 as Logo and Genge carried us over the gain line. Sam Harrison provided a spark at 9 and a great finish for the try from Catchpole. Would say O'Connor is having a decent season.

Annoyed by RC's post match interview on BT. Apparently we need to wait until we've played everyone once to understand the league table. What rubbish! Last year we were 4th. This year we are 4th. Top 2 is already gone IMO so we all know it is a fight with Bath, Exeter, Saints and possibly Quins for the remaining 2 playoff spots. Let's see if that analysis is any different after the next 4 games!!!

[MCC1964]

With regards to Fred/Sam I think we have to be careful when comparing the Sam/Fred axis to the YBY/Williams axis. There's a lot of difference coming on for the last 20 of a game when you are chasing it thah being the starting pairing. And Freddy HAS gone missing on many,many occasions in the past. That said, they did give us some go forward, although I suspect as another poster has said that was as much down to Genge/Loggo as much as anything else. And why Sam, for all his dynamism, suddenly slowed the attacks down on at least two occasions (resulting in turnovers) was a tad baffling.

What held us back (or cost us a losing bonus point at least) was just inaccuracies once again - many with the boot and several in carrying - Genge ironically guilty again, but he's raw and young and I like what I see.