Bring on Sarries! - Teams Up

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drc_007
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Re: Bring on Sarries! - Teams Up

Post by drc_007 »

Burns certainly made the difference, he just gives the defence something else to worry about and frees up the scrum-half.

Catchpole looks like he has what it takes to make a good premiership player, not convinced by Roberts.

The pack has got to learn to play as well a pack, at the moment to often there are individuals getting isolated.

I thought the second-half was grounds for encouragement, just need more penetration in the centres and a ball carrying No8 would make a world of difference.
RagingBull
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Re: Bring on Sarries! - Teams Up

Post by RagingBull »

Thought Roberts went well V Barritt.

He wasn't given much for the 9 and 10 but he ran hard and wasn't at a lost in defence.
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Re: Bring on Sarries! - Teams Up

Post by sapajo »

Critically as our 9 and 10 were not playing well it rendered us rudderless. Bring on Sam plus Freddie and hey presto we are a different team.
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drc_007
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Re: Bring on Sarries! - Teams Up

Post by drc_007 »

RagingBull wrote:Thought Roberts went well V Barritt.

He wasn't given much for the 9 and 10 but he ran hard and wasn't at a lost in defence.
Didn't see anything other than running straight into a defender. Perhaps he was told to do that.
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Re: Bring on Sarries! - Teams Up

Post by sapajo »

drc_007 wrote:
RagingBull wrote:Thought Roberts went well V Barritt.

He wasn't given much for the 9 and 10 but he ran hard and wasn't at a lost in defence.
Didn't see anything other than running straight into a defender. Perhaps he was told to do that.
Tough gig for Roberts but he needed to make the most of his opportunity which he did not capitalise upon.
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chewbacca
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Re: Bring on Sarries! - Teams Up

Post by chewbacca »

We really must stop kicking directly to the opposition strike runners with no challenge. Not a recent thing its been evident over the last 4 or so years, The coaching manuals may claim a statistical advantage from territorial gain but they are clearly outdated.
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RagingBull
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Re: Bring on Sarries! - Teams Up

Post by RagingBull »

drc_007 wrote:
RagingBull wrote:Thought Roberts went well V Barritt.

He wasn't given much for the 9 and 10 but he ran hard and wasn't at a lost in defence.
Didn't see anything other than running straight into a defender. Perhaps he was told to do that.
When did he get the ball without 2 Saracens players on him?

TBH I like the balance of a straight running centre with a outside running Centre. Been worse performances by a Tigers 12 in the last 24/36 months IMO.
wormus
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Re: Bring on Sarries! - Teams Up

Post by wormus »

Noddy555 wrote: Fair dos to George Catchpole at 23 but Matt Smith must be disappointed in losing out, unless of course he's injured.
And George Catchpole scores the only Tigers try :smt038 Roberts was very good in defence and tackled well but Ben Youngs was a donkey - slow, passes to ankles, win the lineout kicks straight to Goode & returned with interest I was shouting to bring Harrison on asap and then with Burns we went forward with hunger.
Old Hob
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Re: Bring on Sarries! - Teams Up

Post by Old Hob »

McCall, pre-match said that when they started the Saracens project 7 years ago it was Tigers they most admired.
Two things from that: SEVEN years and WAS. We now have a different team every week. McCall seemed genuinely shocked/disappointed by Ashton's decision to leave, "We
expect players to finish their careers with us if they are already here" Not like our revolving door then
Cockers calls for accuracy - we didn't have it.
We know we are playing a top side so opportunities are going to be rare yet Slater does things like give away an obvious penalty by dragging Hamilton's arm when they are the only two high in the air at a lineout; as if no-one would see!!!! Stupid, amateurish and taking all the pressure off Saracens instantly.

Dallaglio said: 4 times Tigers have been here with the same tactical plan...with the same result. He's not wrong. Madness is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
Rudderless is right.
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tigercaspian
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Re: Bring on Sarries! - Teams Up

Post by tigercaspian »

WhitecapTiger wrote:
chewbacca wrote:I fancy Sam is providing quicker ball
Overall yes but his mindless (IMO) dithering and marshalling of players to a ruck under Sarries' posts really killed us when we lost that ball, we had good momentum there and he blew it.
ellis9 wrote:Well done Tigers, you deserved a bonus point today. Saracens are a top class side and we weren't embarrassed. A performance like that today would have beaten most other sides in this league.


They deserved a LBP on the last 15-20 mins performance - which was more akin to the performance last week. They showed that Sarries can be run around and forced into errors etc.

That leaves the question: Why did we not play that way for the whole match?

I suggest player selection. Burns made an attacking impact. Harrison was quicker (minus the example above). There was better kicking (generally).

We had enough in that last period to gain a LBP....but didn't.

Frustrating is putting it mildly.

At least Sarries didn't get a TBP - and to be fair, I don't think they were that special today (no matter what Alex Sanderson says or thinks), we gifted them feeble tries again, they were just smarter, smart enough to take their chance and smart enough to play percentages, kicks found touch, up and unders found chasers.

They got away with a fair amount of blocking, offsides, a blatant knock on (I hope Barnes get reamed for that one, it was a shocking decision). Barritt and Burger spent a lot of time hanging around our players necks too, some of those directly in front of Barnes. They rode their luck, fair play to them.

We coughed up a lot of cheap possession too.

I know people will say that our players must get frustrated and affected by poor decisions but they are professionals and should be able to adapt to the ref, good/bad/indifferent, and play their own game. They did it last week.

As i said, frustrating. But not ALL doom and gloom. I pains to say it but Sarries are a top outfit right now, I thought beforehand, taking into account last few visits and our hit and miss performances that a LBP would be a great (sad state of affairs I know but realistic right now IMO), we nearly got that, a bit more control, a bit more patience and we would have had it. Sadly, that was down to the players in that period, couldn't turn the screw enough.

Onwards and upwards I guess.
I thought Barnes was the worst performer on the field today. Quite agree with Whitecap that there were a couple of obvious knock-ons and at least three neckholds that were not penalised. The missed knock-on in the 36th minute was dire.
I take heart from the fact that we didn't get mullered today but only lost through our own mistakes, particularly in the first half: otherwise, Sarries didn't take us apart like they have done in recent seasons and the second half showed what the team can achieve when they add zest on top of the dog that is obviously there.
I thought the younger players did especially well. The more I see Genge, the more I like him even if he has got slippery hands: his bullocking of Fazlet should be in next years calendar! Burns seemed to terrify Sarries when he came on and his break that led to Catchpole's try was wonderful.
It's still difficult to fault Sarries: they really are a TEAM and currently clearly the best. They will finish top of the pile but I am sure we will be in 2nd/3rd/4th and then who knows what might happen.
Well done on a big effort today, Tigers
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Re: Bring on Sarries! - Teams Up

Post by BFG »

Old Hob wrote:McCall, pre-match said that when they started the Saracens project 7 years ago it was Tigers they most admired.
Two things from that: SEVEN years and WAS. We now have a different team every week. McCall seemed genuinely shocked/disappointed by Ashton's decision to leave, "We
expect players to finish their careers with us if they are already here" Not like our revolving door then
Cockers calls for accuracy - we didn't have it.
We know we are playing a top side so opportunities are going to be rare yet Slater does things like give away an obvious penalty by dragging Hamilton's arm when they are the only two high in the air at a lineout; as if no-one would see!!!! Stupid, amateurish and taking all the pressure off Saracens instantly.

Dallaglio said: 4 times Tigers have been here with the same tactical plan...with the same result. He's not wrong. Madness is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
Rudderless is right.
I look at big Jim Hamilton today with Saracens and wonder, as an ex-Leicester player I expect most would say that he didn't make the grade but if he is not as good as what is at Leicester currently then how come he outperformed them? Good coaching or other?

As for the improvement second half, missing Itoje and Kruis the Saracens intensity wasn't as long and hard as usual and they dropped down a few gears in my opinion after Rhodes and others went off.
Freddie and some of the other subs looked decent but to be fair to all they did get to sit and view what was going wrong for a second week and again Saracens intensity clearly dropped.
WhitecapTiger
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Re: Bring on Sarries! - Teams Up

Post by WhitecapTiger »

How many times has Jim Hamilton been a penalty machine for ANY team he has played for?

Saracens' intensity dropped? What happened to the 'production line' then? The much vaunted 'any player can step in and the intensity doesn't drop'? The Wolf Pack? The 'Clone Troopers'?

ANY opportunity to gripe is grasped with both hands by some on here.
Old Hob wrote:We know we are playing a top side so opportunities are going to be rare yet Slater does things like give away an obvious penalty by dragging Hamilton's arm when they are the only two high in the air at a lineout; as if no-one would see!!!! Stupid, amateurish and taking all the pressure off Saracens instantly.
Clearly missed the similar line out contact on Tigers jumpers then, which was no better/worse than Slater's but not given by officials - put down to competition I believe - fine lines. Like many other instances by Sarries, blocking, high tackles, offsides, side entries, blatant knock ons all went pretty much unpunished. We weren't innocent but we were pinged far more often for similar offences.

We weren't great but Saracens got more than their fair share of the rub of the green and got out of jail with some rather dubious calls at opportune moments. We also let them off the hook with some poor protection of the ball at times, sometimes they just defended very well.

To target Slater for one line out indiscretion is pathetic IMO.
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WhitecapTiger
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Re: Bring on Sarries! - Teams Up

Post by WhitecapTiger »

BFG wrote:I look at big Jim Hamilton today with Saracens and wonder, as an ex-Leicester player I expect most would say that he didn't make the grade
And others would say that HE left Leicester to go to Edinburgh to further his International ambitions.

He wasn't that good today IMO, just part of a very efficient TEAM.
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tigercaspian
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Re: Bring on Sarries! - Teams Up

Post by tigercaspian »

BFG wrote:
Old Hob wrote:McCall, pre-match said that when they started the Saracens project 7 years ago it was Tigers they most admired.
Two things from that: SEVEN years and WAS. We now have a different team every week. McCall seemed genuinely shocked/disappointed by Ashton's decision to leave, "We
expect players to finish their careers with us if they are already here" Not like our revolving door then
Cockers calls for accuracy - we didn't have it.
We know we are playing a top side so opportunities are going to be rare yet Slater does things like give away an obvious penalty by dragging Hamilton's arm when they are the only two high in the air at a lineout; as if no-one would see!!!! Stupid, amateurish and taking all the pressure off Saracens instantly.

Dallaglio said: 4 times Tigers have been here with the same tactical plan...with the same result. He's not wrong. Madness is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
Rudderless is right.
I look at big Jim
Hamilton today with Saracens and wonder, as an ex-Leicester player I expect most would say that he didn't make the grade but if he is not as good as what is at Leicester currently then how come he outperformed them? Good coaching or other?

As for the improvement second half, missing Itoje and Kruis the Saracens intensity wasn't as long and hard as usual and they dropped down a few gears in my opinion after Rhodes and others went off.
Freddie and some of the other subs looked decent but to be fair to all they did get to sit and view what was going wrong for a second week and again Saracens intensity clearly dropped.
Er, just as well we didn't win last week then??
Mind you, if we'd had a full team out today we might have actually won this game! Obviously more relevant that Itoje and Kruis weren't playing though .
Sorry to hear that Sarries weren't trying second half : have you told them that?
BFG
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Re: Bring on Sarries! - Teams Up

Post by BFG »

Whitecap Tiger
How many times has Jim Hamilton been a penalty machine for ANY team he has played for?

Saracens' intensity dropped? What happened to the 'production line' then? The much vaunted 'any player can step in and the intensity doesn't drop'? The Wolf Pack? The 'Clone Troopers'?

ANY opportunity to gripe is grasped with both hands by some on here.
How many times has he been a penalty machine, precisely my question, he was better than at any other club.
I think any idiot could see without Itoje and Kruis that the intensity wasn't quite the same.
Who said anything about a production line or other opportunistic drivel you've made up!
And others would say that HE left Leicester to go to Edinburgh to further his International ambitions.

He wasn't that good today IMO, just part of a very efficient TEAM.
Fair enough to the Edinburgh point.
Yes and he was on the winning team today.
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