Does Cockers get the boot if we get smashed again this week

[Tigerbeat]

Anyone would think that we are in real danger of relegation. Competition is tough but performances have not been great. The players are the ones who perform and have failed to apply themselves on the field. So many errors that have lead to scores is, in my opinion, not down to the coaches.

[Cagey Tiger]

Johan Ackermann of the Lions could be a good shout.

It's not my job to analyse DOR contracts, the board need to pull their finger out and have the balls to get it done

Thank you for making an alternative suggestion. Don't know him so cannot comment. Most of the "Sack him now" brigade see unable to provide any alternative, let alone a good one. As I have said elsewhere, I'm not saying that Cockers should stay, but is now the best time for getting a replacement?

[Doghashadhisday]

It's not my job to analyse DOR contracts, the board need to pull their finger out and have the balls to get it done

With all due respect I would suggest that it is also not your job to analyse the DOR performance and call for his sacking. As Ellis9 has said people asked for changes to our style of play and when we do try and change people expect things to gel overnight. It has taken the other clubs 20 years to develop their style of play. Changing the DoR part way through the season could make the situation even worse. We need stability not knee-jerk reactions after just 6 games.

On a day that a great club-man like Anthony Foley has passed away, I really believe key board warriors have no right to call for people to be sacked, by all means you can comment, criticise, moan, about the tactics, skills (or lack thereof), style of play etc. You dont know what passion or commitment the coaches and players are really putting in, only the Board.

[Tyzot]

Seems like there is a confidence issue at the moment and I bet this forum and the constant rather childish hissy fits on facebook are really helping!

I get it - some want a new set up and have the perfect right to say so. But I wish more (I am really thinking facebook here) would do it in a grown up manner.

On both sides of the debate there are some really pathetic comments and "my dads bigger than your dad" behaviours. Is this really what we want our club and sporting community to become.

I am not taking sides on the debate but am definately on one side of the behaviour. Some could do with reading their own posts and thinking what it says about them.

[voice of the crumbie]

As Ellis9 has said people asked for changes to our style of play and when we do try and change people expect things to gel overnight. It has taken the other clubs 20 years to develop their style of play. Changing the DoR part way through the season could make the situation even worse. We need stability not knee-jerk reactions after just 6 games.

+1

Excellent point about the time it takes to develop a style / culture. Look at Saracens in particular. It has taken them a good few seasons to get to where they are now. We had what they have now a few years ago. It was recognised that we needed a change in approach after some lean seasons hence the appointment of Mauger. Ok current performances are not at the level we have come to expect but please give the coaches and players time to sort it out.

[jgriffin]

As Ellis9 has said people asked for changes to our style of play and when we do try and change people expect things to gel overnight. It has taken the other clubs 20 years to develop their style of play. Changing the DoR part way through the season could make the situation even worse. We need stability not knee-jerk reactions after just 6 games.

+1

Excellent point about the time it takes to develop a style / culture. Look at Saracens in particular. It has taken them a good few seasons to get to where they are now. We had what they have now a few years ago. It was recognised that we needed a change in approach after some lean seasons hence the appointment of Mauger. Ok current performances are not at the level we have come to expect but please give the coaches and players time to sort it out.

It is also very noticeable that Southerntiger has just arrived on this forum with one message repeated over and over again, whereas critical commentators like sapajo, who has never hung back from criticising Cockers or any other aspect, gives IMO wise and cautious counsel (echoed by other longterm members). So I would take ST's posts for the persistent inflammation they are and ignore them (since they are largely the same post).

[strawclearer]

As Ellis9 has said people asked for changes to our style of play and when we do try and change people expect things to gel overnight. It has taken the other clubs 20 years to develop their style of play. Changing the DoR part way through the season could make the situation even worse. We need stability not knee-jerk reactions after just 6 games.

+1

Excellent point about the time it takes to develop a style / culture. Look at Saracens in particular. It has taken them a good few seasons to get to where they are now. We had what they have now a few years ago. It was recognised that we needed a change in approach after some lean seasons hence the appointment of Mauger. Ok current performances are not at the level we have come to expect but please give the coaches and players time to sort it out.

It is also very noticeable that Southerntiger has just arrived on this forum with one message repeated over and over again, whereas critical commentators like sapajo, who has never hung back from criticising Cockers or any other aspect, gives IMO wise and cautious counsel (echoed by other longterm members). So I would take ST's posts for the persistent inflammation they are and ignore them (since they are largely the same post).

...which is why one is on my 'Ignore' list and the other is someone whose posts invariably make me wince but I always read with respect.

[mol2]

Whist it might not be the job of anyone on here to decide if any of the coaching staff get sacked or not it doesn't mean any of us are more or less entitled to pass an opinion as to whether or not sackings should take place.

It's a discussion forum for the fans of the club and that means we are entitled to share our opinions in a forthright manner so long as they don't breach the forum rules or the law for that manner.

For a long time Tigers have not been the sum of their parts so what is the other option than sackings?
Give the existing coaches the time to learn how to coach the side, assuming they ever get that good. How many year might that take.
Send for a YTS? After all that's what some would have us do - bring in ex-player A or ex-player B with no coaching experience is much the same as bringing in a school leaver to lecture at university.

[strawclearer]

It's a discussion forum for the fans of the club and that means we are entitled to share our opinions in a forthright manner so long as they don't breach the forum rules or the law for that manner.

Completely agree - in fact, I forthrightly agree!

[Iain]

If we are to dismiss Cockers:

1. For what reason? If it's to improve results I'm not convinced further upheaval will help right now. If it's "because we're playing badly" then dismissing someone as a punishment is the wrong way of dealing with it.

2. Why will this improve results? You need to identify exactly what the problem with Cockers is and improve it. Not easy at all.

3. Who will replace him? Well who's available with credentials better than Cockerill's in domestic rugby? I can't think of anyone.

4. Why will they be immediately better? Good luck answering that one.


Ergo - the problem and solution is really not straightforward. Certainly not one where you can go "Cockers out!" and everything suddenly gets better.

[ourla]

1. For what reason? Cockers himself has said that you can't accept mediocracy and that success at Tigers is expected. We look mediocre and haven't won a trophy for three seasons and on current form it will four.

2. Why will this improve results? It will improve results because somebody will come in with a fresh mindsight and will looking at the coaching and playing squad dispassionately.

3. Who will replace him? I have no idea. One hopes the board members and big cheeses at the club will have kept abreast of the DoR market and have some potentials im mind.

4. Why will they be immediately better? See No 2 above. Nothing is guaranteed of course. But then unless Cockers has a lifetime contract nothing ever will be.

[Iain]

Based on your answers I'd be concluding he stays, in which case.

Your reason for dismissing him is as a punishment to him, rather than identifying why it isn't working.

So we sack the DoR. Great... now what...?

This is where "Cockers Out" falls down as a solution.

[ourla]

Based on your answers I'd be concluding he stays, in which case.

Sorry I'm not with - can you explain how you concluded that?

Your reason for dismissing him is as a punishment to him, rather than identifying why it isn't working.

It's not a punishment to anybody. When he said those things everybody agreed with them. He was right. That he has identified the expectation surely only makes it more logical. Why that is the case (we are mediocre and not winning trophies) is a secondary question. The only excuse would be that is outside of his control. That there are mitigating circumstances. I am not seeing any, are you?

So we sack the DoR. Great... now what...?

It's not great, why are you saying it's "great"? Now what? Now we find a new DoR. That's the way these things work.

This is where "Cockers Out" falls down as a solution.

What is your answer Iain, do nothing and hope for the best.

[Southerntiger]

You do realise DORs don’t knock at your door and hand you their CV.

It’s exactly the same in the corporate world if you want a new CEO or MD, you go out and get who you want.

Eddie Jones didn’t post his CV to England.

The house is falling down, let’s go and get the best builder we can find.

[trendylfj]

On the way back into central Glasgow I said to my friends that this scenario was a very real possibility. The only difference is that I would expect him to walk before being pushed.

What worries me just as much is the rumours that RC and AM are at loggerheads. Yes the decision to bring on Logo was a bad one and difficult to understand. Yes, is the defence is not working at the moment and who made that decision, I don't know. What I do know is that the situation cannot be allowed to continue is and someone needs to sorts it.