Does Cockers get the boot if we get smashed again this week

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ourla
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Re: Does Cockers get the boot if we get smashed again this w

Post by ourla »

ellis9 wrote:Ourla, I'm just telling you the process and that everyone follows it.
With respect, you're not telling me "the process" in terms of what we are discussing. You are telling me that clubs often tell players in advance that they aren't renewing their contracts. But in fact as fentiger points out that wasn't even the case with Fonua, who was signed by Newcastle in mid-August.
ellis9 wrote:I don't think I've ever come across people who slag off the team they support so much as on here.
I've never known anybody less able to admit his club makes errors. Have Tigers never made a mistake ellis9?
ourla
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Re: Does Cockers get the boot if we get smashed again this w

Post by ourla »

Tigerbeat wrote:Ellis9 and Ourla, please remember to respect each other views....perhaps it it may be best to agree to disagree
I respect his view, I just don't think the facts support it or that his view makes sense. I'll try not to prolong the discussion much longer!
ellis9
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Re: Does Cockers get the boot if we get smashed again this w

Post by ellis9 »

Of course they've made mistakes but they are nowhere near the amount as you and others make out.
4071
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Re: Does Cockers get the boot if we get smashed again this w

Post by 4071 »

johnthegriff wrote: They had Fonua who did not live up to expectation, he was off loaded.
Arguably he lived exactly up to expectation.

When he was signed I did wonder if the decision was made after watching a number of London Welsh matches or after watching a youtube highlights video. I suspect the latter.
Crumblies
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Re: Does Cockers get the boot if we get smashed again this w

Post by Crumblies »

ellis9 wrote:Ourla, I'm just telling you the process and that everyone follows it.

Oh your just telling us are you? On what basis should we accept your opinion as fact? Are you in personal contact with, and familiar with the inner workings of each of the clubs in the premiership. Do you hold a position of which we are unaware that makes you aware of this FACT as you quote it?
I'm sorry but with respect this really makes my blood boil. I have spent my life trying to educate people to fervently argue their case. But please above anything else make sure you do so by (i) using reasoned logical argument supported by factual evidence (ii)Be open and respectful to a counter argument and last but by no means least accept that history may finally show that you were WRONG! e.g. Newton's 2nd law of motion eventually disproved by Einstein.

God almighty!

I don't think I've ever come across people who slag off the team they support so much as on here.
The language used here is insulting to the other poster. Not only that but it is wrong.
To the best of my knowledge neither Ourla, 4071, I or others have ever, to use your phrase have ever 'Slagged off the team'. All we have done is had the temerity to ask questions of and criticize the management of our club. It may suprise you ellis9 and others of your ilk, but I, Ourla, 4071 and I suspect most of the other who have similar views, have the utmost respect and appreciation for Richard Cockerill, however he is our Director of Rugby and to use his words ultimate responsibility rests with him!
Crumblies
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Re: Does Cockers get the boot if we get smashed again this w

Post by Crumblies »

ellis9 wrote:Read what I have put! I'll say it again in the hope you understand!

EVERY CLUB does EXACTLY as Tigers did and with the same time frames etc. Fair enough if you think it's bad management but that means that it's bad management by EVERY Director of Rugby/Head Coach.
And my final point. From the above I also assume you believe all the clubs follow the same procedure for complying with the salary cap?

And if you believe that you really do live in cloud cuckoo land!
chewbacca
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Re: Does Cockers get the boot if we get smashed again this w

Post by chewbacca »

Might one have the temerity to suggest that a lot of opinion regarding protocols and organisational behaviour stated as fact by persons not actively engaged in management of premiership rugby clubs could potentially be of no value whatsoever.
I'm not cynical just experienced
SIBARITE
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Re: Does Cockers get the boot if we get smashed again this w

Post by SIBARITE »

Crumblies wrote:
ellis9 wrote:Read what I have put! I'll say it again in the hope you understand!

EVERY CLUB does EXACTLY as Tigers did and with the same time frames etc. Fair enough if you think it's bad management but that means that it's bad management by EVERY Director of Rugby/Head Coach.
And my final point. From the above I also assume you believe all the clubs follow the same procedure for complying with the salary cap?

And if you believe that you really do live in cloud cuckoo land!
+1 :smt038 All the teams are already talking to potential targets and/or their agents. to believe otherwise is at best naive. Next season has to be mapped out for all the clubs. If you want your targets it would be stupid to wait 'til January because they will all be signed up.
ellis9
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Re: Does Cockers get the boot if we get smashed again this w

Post by ellis9 »

To answer your question Crumblies, I don't believe all clubs follow the same process as "ALLEGEDLY" there's some clubs who have broken the salary cap rules by overspending.
HantsTiger
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Re: Does Cockers get the boot if we get smashed again this w

Post by HantsTiger »

SIBARITE wrote:
+1 :smt038 All the teams are already talking to potential targets and/or their agents. to believe otherwise is at best naive. Next season has to be mapped out for all the clubs. If you want your targets it would be stupid to wait 'til January because they will all be signed up.
To this end, in an interview on the Rugby Dungeon podcast (sister of the eggchasers podcast) Neil Briggs admitted that we contacted his agent only a few weeks after he'd played against us which was sometime in October!
Hot_Charlie
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Re: Does Cockers get the boot if we get smashed again this w

Post by Hot_Charlie »

4071 wrote:
johnthegriff wrote: They had Fonua who did not live up to expectation, he was off loaded.
Arguably he lived exactly up to expectation.

When he was signed I did wonder if the decision was made after watching a number of London Welsh matches or after watching a youtube highlights video. I suspect the latter.
Poor Fonua had a horrible season last year. He was obviously seen to have potential but needed serious refinement in certain areas (bulk and fitness). Sadly injury blighted the first half of the season and then when he had his opportunities they were few and far between and his handling wasn't particularly brilliant at times; it's all very well being a boshing ball carrier but only if you've caught the ball in the first place.

I suspect he re-appeared after the off-season, had his fitness assessed and was offered the opportunity to go elsewhere. His agent probably already had it teed up!
ourla
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Re: Does Cockers get the boot if we get smashed again this w

Post by ourla »

Crumblies wrote:
ellis9 wrote:Ourla, I'm just telling you the process and that everyone follows it.

Oh your just telling us are you? On what basis should we accept your opinion as fact? Are you in personal contact with, and familiar with the inner workings of each of the clubs in the premiership. Do you hold a position of which we are unaware that makes you aware of this FACT as you quote it?
I'm sorry but with respect this really makes my blood boil. I have spent my life trying to educate people to fervently argue their case. But please above anything else make sure you do so by (i) using reasoned logical argument supported by factual evidence (ii)Be open and respectful to a counter argument and last but by no means least accept that history may finally show that you were WRONG! e.g. Newton's 2nd law of motion eventually disproved by Einstein.

God almighty!

I don't think I've ever come across people who slag off the team they support so much as on here.
The language used here is insulting to the other poster. Not only that but it is wrong.
To the best of my knowledge neither Ourla, 4071, I or others have ever, to use your phrase have ever 'Slagged off the team'. All we have done is had the temerity to ask questions of and criticize the management of our club. It may suprise you ellis9 and others of your ilk, but I, Ourla, 4071 and I suspect most of the other who have similar views, have the utmost respect and appreciation for Richard Cockerill, however he is our Director of Rugby and to use his words ultimate responsibility rests with him!
I fully support Crumblies statement. It's spot.

Anyhow. It's game day. And in 14 hours I will be heading up the M1 with my Tigers shirt on ready to cheer the boys on. Apprehensive but hopeful.
Dr H Flashman MBE
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Re: Does Cockers get the boot if we get smashed again this w

Post by Dr H Flashman MBE »

As I have now calmed down, in answer to the OPs question, no he won't get fired, even if we take a pasting. There is no one to replace him. I know that southern tiger has suggested a few names, but they would cost money we probably don't have. Binning cockers, would not only be an emotional pull for the club, but his contract would need to be paid off, as of that of AM also. Then the cost of employing a new manager and their backroom staff, it would be prohibitive.

Also, it won't achieve anything. We have Racing then away to Sarries. I can't think of any manager who could come in and win Sarries away. We don't have a great record on fake grass or at Sarries.

If we have a good game and show some very old tigers fight, win or lose we need to look at the positives, and not dwell on the bad. As long as the performance shows some pride and passion and some Oval park basics then I will be a bit happier. Changing mid season is risky and could spiral our season. We still top 4.. being top means nothing in October.
There is never any points for 2nd place...
mol2
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Re: Does Cockers get the boot if we get smashed again this w

Post by mol2 »

Changing plans and coaches mid season is not great but if you wait until the season is over you risk not giving a new set up time to sign the key players they might want and have whole pre season to blend the side.

Lose at home today and Europe is over and after the size of last week's defeat, winning all of our home games alone won't be enough, especially as Glasgow was probably the best chance of an away win for us and the other sides in our group. Munster perhaps but they looked better than last season although their last game may have been hard to judge after the loss of their coach in the circumstances.

I would love to proved wrong but I fear that is only marginally more likely than the Earth being flat!
Crumblies
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Re: Does Cockers get the boot if we get smashed again this w

Post by Crumblies »

As Ourla points out above - its game day. It's time to get your shirt on, oil the vocal chords and Happy Clappers and Doom Mongers unite in support of :

TIGERS!!!
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