Does Cockers get the boot if we get smashed again this week

[mol2]

I would doubt walking away is in Cockers make up. It wasn't as a player and I doubt it is in his make up as a coach/DOR.

Being pushed might be the only option open to the club.

[Iain]

Based on your answers I'd be concluding he stays, in which case.

Sorry I'm not with - can you explain how you concluded that?

Your reason for dismissing him is as a punishment to him, rather than identifying why it isn't working.

It's not a punishment to anybody. When he said those things everybody agreed with them. He was right. That he has identified the expectation surely only makes it more logical. Why that is the case (we are mediocre and not winning trophies) is a secondary question. The only excuse would be that is outside of his control. That there are mitigating circumstances. I am not seeing any, are you?

So we sack the DoR. Great... now what...?

It's not great, why are you saying it's "great"? Now what? Now we find a new DoR. That's the way these things work.

This is where "Cockers Out" falls down as a solution.

What is your answer Iain, do nothing and hope for the best.

I don't have the answer. As somebody outside the club, why would I?

However, my thoughts are that firing the Director of Rugby does not necessarily fix the problem. To identify that there's a problem, not identify what the source of it is and just shrug your shoulders and dismiss the Director of Rugby is something of an abdication of responsibility - an easy answer to a question you weren't sure of the meaning of.

If we can identify that the root of the problem is something Cockers is doing wrong, then either improve that thing or Cockerill's job is on the line, sure. But I have no doubt that we'd suffer and write off the rest of the season if we made a change now.

For me, he stays. If there's a change needed lets look at it in the summer.

Something IS wrong at the minute, but things aren't that bad. The awfulness of Friday night is affecting our ability to keep perspective at the minute.

[ourla]

However, my thoughts are that firing the Director of Rugby does not necessarily fix the problem. To identify that there's a problem, not identify what the source of it is and just shrug your shoulders and dismiss the Director of Rugby is something of an abdication of responsibility - an easy answer to a question you weren't sure of the meaning of.

Many problems have been identified - they've been done to death on here. Just as one example - we got rid of three No. 8's last season and recruited none. Cockers said it was OK, we could cover it. And yet on Friday in the post match analysis Ben Kay and others highlighted just how McAffrey is not big or powerful to break the gain line. Not his fault it's not what he should be doing. So who's fault is it? This has not been caused by injuries or external factors behind his control.

If we can identify that the root of the problem is something Cockers is doing wrong, then either improve that thing or Cockerill's job is on the line, sure.

He's had the time, that is the point.

But I have no doubt that we'd suffer and write off the rest of the season if we made a change now. For me, he stays. If there's a change needed lets look at it in the summer.

If you get someone in new now then they have the rest of the season to assess the coaching and playing staff. Wait until summer and he's starting from scratch while the players are off on tour/holiday.

Something IS wrong at the minute, but things aren't that bad. The awfulness of Friday night is affecting our ability to keep perspective at the minute.

What about the awfulness of the Euro semi last year or the awfulness at Gloucester, or the awfulness at Newcastle. How much awfulness are you prepared to put up with. Things are not that bad, except if think that mediocrity is acceptable.

[fentiger]

When Deano got the sack we had lost a lot of games sequentially, previous to that season we had been (almost) invincible. The difference now is that our poor results are interspersed with some good performances and results, this IMO masks our overall decline and is helping to keep the coaches heads above water. We keep playing our 'get out of jail' card each season by creeping into semis without winning the silverware.
I don't have a suggestion for cure, however I do believe that something needs to change. One problem maybe that we are being governed overall by an accountant and just perhaps some purse strings need a little slack in them regarding retaining/recruiting?

[ourla]

One problem maybe that we are being governed overall by an accountant and just perhaps some purse strings need a little slack in them regarding retaining/recruiting?

Not sure recruitment is an issue. We have IMO recruited some very good players. TV, Mcaff, O'Connor, Williams, Toomua. What I don't get is why we keep Thacker but rarely use him, why we ditched three 8's and got none, why Matt Smith was rejuvenated and then isn't used. Why players are blowing hot and cold, why I've actually no idea who are best 15 and 23 are. And of course why we are shipping so many easy tries. Sure, it may be some of this is born of the players, nothing is ever black and white. But most of it appears to me to land at Cockers door step.

As I keep saying I hope he proves me wrong. Unlike some I've had plenty of faith him until recently.

[Tigerbeat]

Interception tries seem to be the most gifted this season or tries salvaged from Tigers errors.
The defence has been good at times and there is no reason why it should not be able to be fixed. The players have shown that they can defend well and need to keep switched on for the full game.
Errors made are going to be punished and this has been shown in matches this season.
I guess that Cockers will remain in situ for the remainder of the season unless things really go downhill and we are facing a possibility of bottom three or failing to qualify for Europeans Champion Rugby next season.

[Cagey Tiger]

1. For what reason? Cockers himself has said that you can't accept mediocracy and that success at Tigers is expected. We look mediocre and haven't won a trophy for three seasons and on current form it will four.

2. Why will this improve results? It will improve results because somebody will come in with a fresh mindsight and will looking at the coaching and playing squad dispassionately.

3. Who will replace him? I have no idea. One hopes the board members and big cheeses at the club will have kept abreast of the DoR market and have some potentials im mind.

4. Why will they be immediately better? See No 2 above. Nothing is guaranteed of course. But then unless Cockers has a lifetime contract nothing ever will be.

1. Agreed. However, Sarries are being held up left, right and centre as what we should aspire to. When Brendan Venter arrived, he put in place the defensive system and squad rotation. The club recognised that it would take a while to come to full fruition and that they probably would not win trophies for a few seasons. They were patient and have been rewarded after a number of seasons. Tiger employed Mauger last season and a significant overhaul of our playing style has taken place. However, "we" are not prepared to wait more than a season. Nuff said.

2. Maybe, maybe not. Getting someone new does NOT guarantee improvement, see Meyer and Loffreda.

4. No, see 2 above.

3. As your assumptions that a change will improve things are highly questionable and you don't have any potential replacement with at least a decent track record to give hope that they will improve things, I would say that immediate change has little merit. But, pluck an outstanding candidate from somewhere and the picture changes.

[Cagey Tiger]

You do realise DORs don’t knock at your door and hand you their CV. some do, some don't

It’s exactly the same in the corporate world if you want a new CEO or MD, you go out and get who you want.

Eddie Jones didn’t post his CV to England. Jake White did

The house is falling down, let’s go and get the best builder we can find. and what do we do if the best we can get now is worse than whichever incumbent they replace? Very good coaches and DORs tend to be employed for the whole season AND often want to "finish the job". There will be a greater choice at the end of the season.

[Noddy555]

There has to come a time when someone has to be accountable for failing players performances whether that be the director of Rugby operations or the team coach!
In all other measured aspects Leicester Tigers is probably the best Rugby Union club on the planet, It has the biggest fan base in the British Isles. It has a successful Administrative & Marketing team which attracts Sponsors that are often queuing up to splash their marketing budgets on the country's historically most successful team. What it doesn't have or appears to lack is a successful playing team for the last 3 or possibly 4 seasons. The obtention of Silverware is a prerequisite for a club like Leicester and if the coach or the players are not delivering then they have to go. Whilst I feel sorry for Manu Tuilagi I must question the wisdom of tying up so much of the playing budget on one injury prone player, We failed George Ford by holding on to Toby Flood 1 or 2 seasons too many so it is no wonder that he left. Are we now in danger of doing that with some of the other senior players in the Squad? A soloution must be found and found quickly.

[Rykard]

I thought mauger was responsible for recruitment, cockers taking the heat to protect the coaches?

[jgriffin]

Reply to the OP's question - No.

[Old Hob]

Cagey Tiger said: "1. Agreed. However, Sarries are being held up left, right and centre as what we should aspire to. When Brendan Venter arrived, he put in place the defensive system and squad rotation. The club recognised that it would take a while to come to full fruition and that they probably would not win trophies for a few seasons. They were patient and have been rewarded after a number of seasons. Tiger employed Mauger last season and a significant overhaul of our playing style has taken place. However, "we" are not prepared to wait more than a season. Nuff said. "

Saracens were a mid/bottom half of the table team in a rented ground with feeble attendance figures. 10 blokes in Fezzes and a rat chewed camel mascot if they were lucky. Their expectations were low.
Our expectations are, rightly, different.

[ourla]

1. Agreed. However, Sarries are being held up left, right and centre as what we should aspire to. When Brendan Venter arrived, he put in place the defensive system and squad rotation. The club recognised that it would take a while to come to full fruition and that they probably would not win trophies for a few seasons. They were patient and have been rewarded after a number of seasons. Tiger employed Mauger last season and a significant overhaul of our playing style has taken place. However, "we" are not prepared to wait more than a season. Nuff said.

I'm not sure if it is "nuff said". Are you seriously telling me you will wait "a few seasons" for success? If not "a few seasons", how long?

2. Maybe, maybe not. Getting someone new does NOT guarantee improvement, see Meyer and Loffreda.

That's the cowards way out. Do nothing.

Nothing is guaranteed, we know that. Stick with Cockers or not? Guarantees are none. That is not the question.

3. As your assumptions that a change will improve things are highly questionable

Starter for 10. Explain to me why we ditched three 8's and didn't sign one?

you don't have any potential replacement with at least a decent track record to give hope that they will improve things, I would say that immediate change has little merit.

Give over, I could give you a dozen names. But I am not in the business of recruiting DoRs. Our board is, they will have the names, the merits of those names, the likely availability of those names, etc.

[Smudge]

You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately... Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!

[mightymouse]

Whether on not it is a good thing for the playing stability to sack DOR or coaches there is one simple fact I wish to point out. These guys like players are on contracts. If you sack them you still have to pay them. To bring in another (whoever that may be) one assumes is an expensive business.

I seem to recall a recent communication from the club saying there was nigh on a half million pound operating loss last year. Where is all this money going to come from......or should we be seeking a buyout from a multi million are and go down the Saracens route altogether?