Transfers & Rumours Non Tigers 2016/17

[johnthegriff]

Cocker never really felt the need foe a defence coach, he preferred one voice telling the backs what to do and one (his) instructing he forwards, of course the two coaches needed to communicate, a third voice in the equation just complicated matters. Attack is when you have the ball, defence is when they have it, if they have the ball tackle them, hit them hard take the ball off them, what more needs to be said, I give that for free no need to pay mega bucks to an unnecessary coach.

[Rugbyflanker]

Is that you saying it or Cockers? Either way it's wrong in this day and age or Gustard and Farrell etc wouldn't have jobs

[RagingBull]

Cocker never really felt the need foe a defence coach, he preferred one voice telling the backs what to do and one (his) instructing he forwards, of course the two coaches needed to communicate, a third voice in the equation just complicated matters. Attack is when you have the ball, defence is when they have it, if they have the ball tackle them, hit them hard take the ball off them, what more needs to be said, I give that for free no need to pay mega bucks to an unnecessary coach.

Didn’t cockers sign Phil Blake?

[fleabane]

John, that was ok in the past, but things have moved on. The whole team has to operate as a single entity in defence now, largely as a result of the input from the RL coaches. The attack also involves the forwards - how often do we see the in the three quarter line or, god forbid the wing! Cockers took on too much, and this was his downfall.

[johnthegriff]

I remember when it was suggested that we recruit Edwards as defence coach based on his record with Wasps and Wales Cocker pointed out that both Wasps and Wales conceded more tries than Tigers. Last season only Exeter and Saracens conceded fewer 5 pointers than Tigers, I believe that the best defence is to play in your opponents 22 and if you have the ball look after the blooming thing. I realise that the game has moved on because everybody says it has but it is still fifteen players trying to get the ball behind their opponents try-line, sometimes doing the simple well is better than the over complicated thinking that so often goes wrong.

[jgriffin]

I remember when it was suggested that we recruit Edwards as defence coach based on his record with Wasps and Wales Cocker pointed out that both Wasps and Wales conceded more tries than Tigers. Last season only Exeter and Saracens conceded fewer 5 pointers than Tigers, I believe that the best defence is to play in your opponents 22 and if you have the ball look after the blooming thing. I realise that the game has moved on because everybody says it has but it is still fifteen players trying to get the ball behind their opponents try-line, sometimes doing the simple well is better than the over complicated thinking that so often goes wrong.

My desperate cry at so many matches "Don't kick it away", as if you have possession the other side can't score and you can!

[ellis9]

I remember when it was suggested that we recruit Edwards as defence coach based on his record with Wasps and Wales Cocker pointed out that both Wasps and Wales conceded more tries than Tigers. Last season only Exeter and Saracens conceded fewer 5 pointers than Tigers, I believe that the best defence is to play in your opponents 22 and if you have the ball look after the blooming thing. I realise that the game has moved on because everybody says it has but it is still fifteen players trying to get the ball behind their opponents try-line, sometimes doing the simple well is better than the over complicated thinking that so often goes wrong.

Yes, just like Exeter. Do the simple things well. It gets you far.

[ellis9]

I remember when it was suggested that we recruit Edwards as defence coach based on his record with Wasps and Wales Cocker pointed out that both Wasps and Wales conceded more tries than Tigers. Last season only Exeter and Saracens conceded fewer 5 pointers than Tigers, I believe that the best defence is to play in your opponents 22 and if you have the ball look after the blooming thing. I realise that the game has moved on because everybody says it has but it is still fifteen players trying to get the ball behind their opponents try-line, sometimes doing the simple well is better than the over complicated thinking that so often goes wrong.

My desperate cry at so many matches "Don't kick it away", as if you have possession the other side can't score and you can!

What annoys me about people that shout that is they are usually wrong. I'm not saying you are by the way. I often hear people shout "Stop kicking the ball away" even though it is the correct thing to do. For example, inside our 22 or just outside it and not really getting anywhere. The only way out is to kick, yet I hear "Stop kicking it".

[Rugbyflanker]

Yes our best performance this season for me was v Exeter at WR. Squeezed them by depending in their 22! By far our best lineout/maul performance too,to watch Chiefs kick for goal every time rather than go to the corners was a thing of beauty, hugely satisfying!

[johnthegriff]

I heard Will Greenwood say in a recent interview that Paul Gustard told him that as England's defence coach he only got 27 minutes with the players before a match. If we hire a guy as just a defence coach particularly one of high reputation I presume that will mean a salary of at least 150k per annum plus of course the extras like national insurance removal expenses etc this would probably mean either the profit on an increase of another million of turnover (where does that come from?) or it impacts on other areas of the business.
Just because we don't have a specific defence coach it does not mean that defence is not being coached. A forwards coach coaches all aspects of forward play with maybe parts delegated to an assistant, Bakes & Boris with a little help from Deacs. A backs coach coaches all aspects of backs play with parts delegated to an assistant, O'Connor & Murph. With the head coach deciding overall policy and co-ordination. I agree it did not work too well last season but with Bakewell's arrival there was improvement.
Cocker did not take on too much, his problem was the long term injuries to the midfield over several seasons, Allen.Tuilagi, Smith, Hepetema, Bai, Loamanu, Roberts, Catchpole etc. In Paul Burkes season as backs coach he had fourteen different combinations of midfield forced on him through injury. It was no surprise that he was not successful.
When Mauger arrived with Scotty as skills and defence coach the defence was actually less effective than previously, of course it may have been better if Toomua had not joined Manu on the injury list, we shall never know but I think there were too many voices having an input and confusing the players. The game is simple, Exeter have shown what can be achieved by keeping it simple, pass, catch, run straight and tackle hard above all look after the pill when you have it!

[jgriffin]

I remember when it was suggested that we recruit Edwards as defence coach based on his record with Wasps and Wales Cocker pointed out that both Wasps and Wales conceded more tries than Tigers. Last season only Exeter and Saracens conceded fewer 5 pointers than Tigers, I believe that the best defence is to play in your opponents 22 and if you have the ball look after the blooming thing. I realise that the game has moved on because everybody says it has but it is still fifteen players trying to get the ball behind their opponents try-line, sometimes doing the simple well is better than the over complicated thinking that so often goes wrong.

My desperate cry at so many matches "Don't kick it away", as if you have possession the other side can't score and you can!

What annoys me about people that shout that is they are usually wrong. I'm not saying you are by the way. I often hear people shout "Stop kicking the ball away" even though it is the correct thing to do. For example, inside our 22 or just outside it and not really getting anywhere. The only way out is to kick, yet I hear "Stop kicking it".

I usually call that out when we turn the ball over or win it around our 10m line, often a box kick, which allows a fragmented opposition defence to change to attacking a slightly chaotic line. This happens far too often IMO. However I applaud great territory pressure kicks especially precision touch finding on the bounce. I have witnessed Mr Ford and Mr Youngs kicking when patience and retention (au Chiefs) seemed far more fruitful.

[JP14]

Unfortunately, as I have to tell my frustrated relatives in the Crumbie when we box-kick, kicking the ball away in the 22 is essential to trapping the opposition in their own ‘22 if the kick-chase is good, which it hasn’t been too many times this season. One of our best performances this season at Allianz Park came from kicking the ball and trapping Sarries within their own ‘22.

[jgriffin]

Unfortunately, as I have to tell my frustrated relatives in the Crumbie when we box-kick, kicking the ball away in the 22 is essential to trapping the opposition in their own ‘22 if the kick-chase is good, which it hasn’t been too many times this season. One of our best performances this season at Allianz Park came from kicking the ball and trapping Sarries within their own ‘22.

Quite. Hence my frustration.

[chewbacca]

Too often the kick is too low and too far to make any chase pointless. Look at the hang time Farrell got in the semi-final. If you think you can get there you will chase it if you don't then you prepare to defend the return rather than be stepped and left stranded in the opposition 22.

[Rugbyflanker]

Our kick chase game is as bad as our lineout,I don't know why we bother!