Transfers & Rumours Non Tigers 2016/17

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johnthegriff
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Re: Transfers & Rumours Non Tigers 2016/17

Post by johnthegriff » Mon May 21, 2018 1:27 pm

Amazing, a former player who has never held the position of head coach and was defence coach to England during an unsuccessful 6 Nations and another former player who has been backs coach at Worcester who if I recall finished 11th in the league two years on the trot, find another job and somehow our Board and senior players have let us down by thinking they know better than TTRITH. How very silly of them!

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Re: Transfers & Rumours Non Tigers 2016/17

Post by jgriffin » Mon May 21, 2018 3:35 pm

I'd agree with all the last 3 posters, as I don't accept that Vesty or Gustard are 'the answer', but remain horribly concerned about the shortage of specialist coaches at WR, and the effectiveness of those in post (except Boris, Bakewell possibly being a dead cat bounce).
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Re: Transfers & Rumours Non Tigers 2016/17

Post by TTRITH » Mon May 21, 2018 4:39 pm

johnthegriff wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 1:27 pm
Amazing, a former player who has never held the position of head coach and was defence coach to England during an unsuccessful 6 Nations and another former player who has been backs coach at Worcester who if I recall finished 11th in the league two years on the trot, find another job and somehow our Board and senior players have let us down by thinking they know better than TTRITH. How very silly of them!
How very silly of them indeed. :smt045

I think you are being incredibly unfair to both Gustard and Vesty. Gustard is largely responsible for Saracens "wolf pack," he was part of the "revolution" at Saracens, and has impressed in the England set up. Last I knew, he wasn't responsible for team selection, which has forced England to become unstuck recently.

Vesty is an incredibly intelligent coach, and again is widely respected as such. The material he has produced online is a testament to that. There is a reason why Chris Boyd (another really good appointment btw) has brought him into Saints, and he will do well there. And yes, I feel he'd do a better job than our current skills coach, who has been unable to solve the issues that our squad has with basic passing, kicking and tackling!

Matt O'Connor is not a director of rugby, so I have some sympathy for him, although his team selections have been odd and tactics flawed (again, merely in my humble opinion.) Ged Glynn is responsible for recruitment, and whilst I'm excited by the players coming in this season we are woefully short of quality in the midfield (no other real starter options at 10/12, first choice 13s are injury prone, and Tait and Smith are the wrong side of 30). There is also a reluctance to play the younger players Worth and Hardwick being two prime examples.

My argument is not that we didn't appointment them but more the point that we didn't even look at them. We appointed the easy option who failed at Leinster, and it can't have been the playing staff because Cullen, with very little coaching pedigree has brought them back to the top table (with astutely appointed coaches, whereas we stick with the same old, minimal approach)!
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Re: Transfers & Rumours Non Tigers 2016/17

Post by Cagey Tiger » Mon May 21, 2018 5:46 pm

Robespierre wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 1:17 pm
RagingBull wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 10:49 am
If :censored: hits the fan next season we should have plenty of options available for the 2019/20 season anyway in terms of Head coaches.
For if read "when"!!
When? On this forum, no later than the first defeat for many, after the 1st "poor" performance for others, and the doom mongers have already started :smt002

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Re: Transfers & Rumours Non Tigers 2016/17

Post by Robespierre » Mon May 21, 2018 6:15 pm

Cagey Tiger wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 5:46 pm
Robespierre wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 1:17 pm
RagingBull wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 10:49 am
If :censored: hits the fan next season we should have plenty of options available for the 2019/20 season anyway in terms of Head coaches.
For if read "when"!!
When? On this forum, no later than the first defeat for many, after the 1st "poor" performance for others, and the doom mongers have already started :smt002
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Re: Transfers & Rumours Non Tigers 2016/17

Post by ourla » Mon May 21, 2018 10:51 pm

TTRITH wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 4:39 pm
johnthegriff wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 1:27 pm
Amazing, a former player who has never held the position of head coach and was defence coach to England during an unsuccessful 6 Nations and another former player who has been backs coach at Worcester who if I recall finished 11th in the league two years on the trot, find another job and somehow our Board and senior players have let us down by thinking they know better than TTRITH. How very silly of them!
How very silly of them indeed. :smt045

I think you are being incredibly unfair to both Gustard and Vesty. Gustard is largely responsible for Saracens "wolf pack," he was part of the "revolution" at Saracens, and has impressed in the England set up. Last I knew, he wasn't responsible for team selection, which has forced England to become unstuck recently.

Vesty is an incredibly intelligent coach, and again is widely respected as such. The material he has produced online is a testament to that. There is a reason why Chris Boyd (another really good appointment btw) has brought him into Saints, and he will do well there. And yes, I feel he'd do a better job than our current skills coach, who has been unable to solve the issues that our squad has with basic passing, kicking and tackling!

Matt O'Connor is not a director of rugby, so I have some sympathy for him, although his team selections have been odd and tactics flawed (again, merely in my humble opinion.) Ged Glynn is responsible for recruitment, and whilst I'm excited by the players coming in this season we are woefully short of quality in the midfield (no other real starter options at 10/12, first choice 13s are injury prone, and Tait and Smith are the wrong side of 30). There is also a reluctance to play the younger players Worth and Hardwick being two prime examples.

My argument is not that we didn't appointment them but more the point that we didn't even look at them. We appointed the easy option who failed at Leinster, and it can't have been the playing staff because Cullen, with very little coaching pedigree has brought them back to the top table (with astutely appointed coaches, whereas we stick with the same old, minimal approach)!
There appears to be a lot of conjecture here.

#1 We don't know that Tigers have never considered employing Gustard and Vesty.

#2 We are talking about Gustard as a DoR not as a coach.

#3 Boyd may be a good appointment but frankly the proof is in the pudding and it's likely to take time and patience for it to become so.

The coaches and players at Tigers know the score. Another season like this one would not be tolerated. That doesn't guarantee anything other than your negativity will either be proven correct or not fairly swiftly.
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Re: Transfers & Rumours Non Tigers 2016/17

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Tue May 22, 2018 2:06 am

Matt O’Connor is literally not a DOR, his job title is Head Coach not DOR

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Re: Transfers & Rumours Non Tigers 2016/17

Post by AngusMcCoatup » Tue May 22, 2018 11:45 pm

Jimmy Skitz wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 2:06 am
Matt O’Connor is literally not a DOR, his job title is Head Coach not DOR
Personally I wish Matt O'Connor had been shown the DOOR after this seasons results and missing the playoffs. :smt013
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Re: Transfers & Rumours Non Tigers 2016/17

Post by strawclearer » Tue May 22, 2018 11:55 pm

Wasps announce defence coach Phil Blake will be leaving the club now the season is over and his contract is up.
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Re: Transfers & Rumours Non Tigers 2016/17

Post by Rugbyflanker » Wed May 23, 2018 4:18 am

I'd take Blake back,we conceded the least tries in the AP when he was here. When he was at Oz they beat NZ 2/4,won their first tri nations in 10 years and didn't concede a single try in the 2011 group stages Vs SA,Italy and Ireland. Also finished top,got to a final and had the AP highest tackle % last season with Wasps too,why did he leave?

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Re: Transfers & Rumours Non Tigers 2016/17

Post by Granby » Wed May 23, 2018 6:50 am

Most trys conceded amongst the top 5 - https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport ... s-14692195

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Re: Transfers & Rumours Non Tigers 2016/17

Post by JP14 » Wed May 23, 2018 6:56 am

Wasps defence is poor, but that might only be because of the attacking mindset, so I wouldn't mind him coming back to us.
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Re: Transfers & Rumours Non Tigers 2016/17

Post by Rugbyflanker » Wed May 23, 2018 8:03 am

Yes JP,Blake's hands are tied there. His complete resume overwhelmingly stands up to one season

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Re: Transfers & Rumours Non Tigers 2016/17

Post by Tiger93 » Wed May 23, 2018 9:20 am

I'd take Blake back. He did a good job at Wasps with his hands tied with the way they play and selection of some backs who simply cannot tackle and lack defensive discipline. They've let him go because they're paying Danny Wilson big doh. They simply cannot afford to keep him as well as all the other coaches they have.

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Re: Transfers & Rumours Non Tigers 2016/17

Post by RagingBull » Wed May 23, 2018 9:43 am

I would take him back.
Knows the club, has a lot of experience the squad on the whole is a lot better than the one we had when he was with us IMO.
Wasps defensive issues came from poor forward play and a very "loose" counter attacking play style which will always leave holes open.

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