Blaming the right person?

[johnthegriff]

When Cocker took over Tigers were eighth in the Premiership and it was after Christmas. We finished that season as champions and reached the Heineken cup final where we were a little unlucky to lose to Leinster and an inspired performance from Rocky Elsom. Since then we have won two further Championships and have not finished a season lower than 4th.
That cannot be judged as failure, currently we are not playing well but the facts are that we have played three winning two away from home and losing one. The knives are out far too early probably the same people who were complaining when we scored more tries and conceded fewer than our competitors but they just did not like Matt O' Connor or Cocker.
A few more games will show what direction we are going in and then blame or praise should be apportioned although it may be that winning the Premiership and winning the Europeans Champions Cup might not be sufficient to gain praise from some posters on this message board.

[h's dad]

Just look at England - with the same players Eddie Jones has made the team to no 2 in the world yet 1 year ago they could not get out of the group stage at WC.

Salient point

Its a point I've made on at least two occasions - so I'm glad you said it because if I'd have said it here, I'd be the subject of ridicule.

I also note that quite a few on this forum are questioning the ability of RC to progress this squad of players - again, its as obvious as a kick to the groin that he either can't or wont. But it seems some are perfectly entitled to this opinion, and some aren't.

Yet you've been a diehard apologist for Lancaster. Something just doesn't add up Roly.

[Roly]

Weapons grade bollix.

What I've actually said is the Eddie Jones's team is Stuart Lancaster's legacy.

Adds up quite easily.

[BengalTiger]

Roly is nothing if not consistent, Tigers / rubbish, Sarries / wonderful, it makes for a sad background noise whenever the forum is visited.

[Roly]

Roly is nothing if not consistent, Tigers / rubbish, Sarries / wonderful, it makes for a sad background noise whenever the forum is visited.

You could of course, not visit then?

Tigers have been poor, including (but not limited to):

They've conceded 73 points in 3 matches.
3 Yellow cards in 2 matches.

Saracens have dropped 1 point in 3 matches. My opinion is based on fact, and I'm entitled to voice it.

[Cagey Tiger]

A few observations.

To those who say that the forwards are :censored:, how, and by who, we're the vast majority of the tries in our two victories scored? Following lineouts in the opposition 22/rolling mauls, so not that :censored:. Not brilliant, but not :censored:. Contrary to what some seem to think, there is a large spectrum between brilliant and :censored:.

I feel that the general performances this season have continued from the average ones from last season. In the backs, I feel that they have been worse, partly due to some being off form (Betham?) and other teams getting a better grasp of how we play now.

I am not going to apportion blame, but our "defensive" system and our players are not delivering. This was a regular occurrence last season, was present in our two pre-season games against the Ospreys and has occurred in all 3 games so far.

I am not a doom monger but am definitely regarding Sunday's match with a large dose of trepidation. As for the rest of the season, I doubt that our current level of performance will get us top 4, more likely 6-7.

[WhitecapTiger]

A few observations. To those who say that the forwards are , how, and by who, we're the vast majority of the tries in our two victories scored? Following lineouts in the opposition 22/rolling mauls, so not that . Not brilliant, but not . Contrary to what some seem to think, there is a large spectrum between brilliant and .

I don't think our forwards are poor at all but, only two of the 5 tries against Glaws were scored from rolling mauls and they were both scored (finished off) by Sam Harrison.

Tuilagi, JPP and O'Connor's (YBY box kick, JPP gather and offload) tries against Glaws came from open play.

Fitzgerald's try up at Falcons came from open play.

The forwards are good, just not playing to their capabilities right now for some reason.

[Cagey Tiger]

A few observations. To those who say that the forwards are , how, and by who, we're the vast majority of the tries in our two victories scored? Following lineouts in the opposition 22/rolling mauls, so not that . Not brilliant, but not . Contrary to what some seem to think, there is a large spectrum between brilliant and .

I don't think our forwards are poor at all but, only two of the 5 tries against Glaws were scored from rolling mauls and they were both scored (finished off) by Sam Harrison.

Tuilagi, JPP and O'Connor's (YBY box kick, JPP gather and offload) tries against Glaws came from open play.

Fitzgerald's try up at Falcons came from open play.

The forwards are good, just not playing to their capabilities right now for some reason.

Tries following a line-out close to the try line tend to be in open play. I was referring to the fact that Fitzgerald's try was as a result of forward play, not a sweeping backs move. My fault for being a bit general.

[spongebillybob1]

I would honestly blame Hansen as we seem to have no defence 70+ points and only 3 games bad!!

[jgriffin]

There has been so many comments saying that Cockerill should be sacked, he has no clue and needs to be replaced.

There has been loads of people saying we are not playing well.

Firstly, individual mistakes cannot be blamed on any coach. Only the player who made the mistake is to blame. Secondly, many people have asked for more exciting, entertaining, fast flowing rugby. I agree this hasn't happened apart from in small doses. If any coach is to blame for the lack of exciting, entertaining, fast flowing rugby, then surely that has to be Mauger?

In my view, I haven't seen much that he has brought to the team that he was brought in to do. He had had a full pre-season and most of last season to bed in a system for us to play the still it isn't quite happening. I couldn't care less how we play, I'll take an ugly, boring win over an exciting but disappointing result 100% of the time. If I witnessed 3-0 wins every game, that's fine by me but so many people have been quick to blame Cockerill but are they really blaming the person they should be?

Well I had very high expectations of Mauger and Hansen, that said it was reputation and not evidence based as The Crusaders results since 2008 have not been anything to shout about! Mauger has been given the lion's share of which players we sign and who we let go, team selection and attack. He insisted on bringing Hansen with him as defence and skills coach. Cocker's is now firmly in his DOR slot and his coaching involvement is limited to the forwards. Make what you will of the reality of the current status quo and exactly where the responsibility for our ongoing problems truly lie ?

Agree 100%, reflects my view of the location of the problems.

[mol2]

When Mauger's appointment was announced the point was made at the time that was he appointed because he was an outstanding coach, because he was ex-Tigers or both?

His results in New Zealand didn't inspire confidence and we had a season of erratic performances, leaky defensive structures and a capacity to lose possession with ease.

Something has to change soon.

[SIBARITE]

When Mauger's appointment was announced the point was made at the time that was he appointed because he was an outstanding coach, because he was ex-Tigers or both?

His results in New Zealand didn't inspire confidence and we had a season of erratic performances, leaky defensive structures and a capacity to lose possession with ease.

Something has to change soon.

Sadly it won't be the mindset of many on here. DOR is what it is and the buck stops there.

[Roly]

When Mauger's appointment was announced the point was made at the time that was he appointed because he was an outstanding coach, because he was ex-Tigers or both?

His results in New Zealand didn't inspire confidence and we had a season of erratic performances, leaky defensive structures and a capacity to lose possession with ease.

Something has to change soon.

Sadly it won't be the mindset of many on here. DOR is what it is and the buck stops there.

Personally, I think that nepotism will ensure the club's mediocrity.

[ourla]

When Mauger's appointment was announced the point was made at the time that was he appointed because he was an outstanding coach, because he was ex-Tigers or both?

His results in New Zealand didn't inspire confidence and we had a season of erratic performances, leaky defensive structures and a capacity to lose possession with ease.

Something has to change soon.

Sadly it won't be the mindset of many on here. DOR is what it is and the buck stops there.

What a strange thing to say. The idea that Cockerill is untouchable is nonsense.

[SIBARITE]

When Mauger's appointment was announced the point was made at the time that was he appointed because he was an outstanding coach, because he was ex-Tigers or both?

His results in New Zealand didn't inspire confidence and we had a season of erratic performances, leaky defensive structures and a capacity to lose possession with ease.

Something has to change soon.

Sadly it won't be the mindset of many on here. DOR is what it is and the buck stops there.

What a strange thing to say. The idea that Cockerill is untouchable is nonsense.

Eh?