Tigers v Wasps

[simoscribbler]

It's a matter of resources, that's for sure. So the key question for me is: is Tigers' spend, relative to the other top prem clubs, achieving a higher or lower league position than we might expect based on that spend? My guess - and it is a pure guess - is that we are a top 4 spender, but will RC et al get us to that league position this year? Can't say I'm hugely confident at present, though of course it's really early days still.

I honestly believe that we've got it wrong by recruiting so many older overseas players, having what feels like a bit of a revolving door, and failing to bring through enough of our own young talent. It's as if the Academy and the first team squad are totally unconnected. For me that has to be down to those who run the club strategically.

At the top level, where there are so many really gifted players, the winning edge sometimes is simply down to total physical commitment - perhaps more in rugby the in other sports. And I really believe that younger, home developed players really do give you that for a year or two in their early twenties, before they get comfortable and often physically fragile. We almost take the colossal hits for granted these days, but they must be taking their toll.

[Roly]

Based on recent matches - and I concede that its early days - then its quite clear which teams have moved on and which teams haven't.

At the moment, Saracens, Wasps and Bath will be top 3 (and I predict Saracens will only lose 2 matches this season in all competitions)and Tigers will be scrapping with Chiefs for 4th place.

The time for platitudes and excuses is gone. We hear it week after week after week, "We weren't good enough, we need to improve, and we will improve".

The simple fact is, the team has not moved on. It started as badly (if not worse) than it did against Glaws - which you would have thought would have been enough to put the fear of God into the coaching staff.

There's little cohesion, and basic errors litter the statistics. Witness Saracens v Chiefs yesterday. Itoje and Hamilton attack each and every breakdown as if their lives depended upon it. I look at Tigers and most of the time it looks like they met in the carpark before the match.

Its time to get real. Unless there's a huge improvement, and a consistent one - you lot can leave bizzaro land and accept that a top 4 finish is tenuous and European progression from the group is the best to hope for.

Not good enough.

[g]

Roly

I actually think that Saracens will go the whole season unbeaten. There is not one team in the Premiership who will live with them. They are the complete package from coaches and backroom staff down to the players and on present form unbeatable.

[Roly]

So 2 games played and 72 points shipped already. Think it's time that tigers hired a decent defence coach because I don't have a clue what the one we have is supposed to be doing. Not a lot it seems.

All the happy clappers will be saying it's early days and there's a long way to go but we have carried on from where we left off last season with one of the worst defensive records in the premiership. Nothing has changed for 3 seasons now but lets not say anything negative as to upset all those poor sensitive souls out there who won't admit there are issues and will all be saying it's all hunky dory. Quite frankly it's not all hunky dory and if the players and coaches are just happy to keep plodding along and spout out the same excuses every week then more fool you for falling for it.

To admit this would be heresy on the forum. You'd have more luck pulling a monkey from your butt than getting some to acknowledge that it just isn't working.

Mauger the supposedly mercurial SH coach - it isn't working. Ben Kay said yesterday that it wont be long before even the Leicester faithful begin calling for a return to the old ways (that at least brought results).

Hansen - 8 tries in two matches shipped - it isn't working.

Cockers - admitted its his fault - it isn't working.

[ellis9]

Didn't I say that Mauger wouldn't necessarily bring success way back when the announcement was made that he was joining?

[wardy]

I normally keep my head below the parapet but Saturday's performance really depressed me. For probably the first time I have to agree with Roly. New dawn? - same old, same old. Mauger has had his bedding-in season and although our style of play has changed, games are still littered with stupid errors.

These are professional players working in an environment they are used to. If I had made mistakes in my professional career (courtrooms - just as heated and stressful as a rugby pitch) I would have been out of the door quicker than I could say P45.

Having had a go at the players, now to the coaches. I am a fan of Cockers and all he has done for the club but I am left wondering whether he has taken us as far as his abilities will let him. I have watched for many years as teams like Saracens, Wasps, Chiefs etc have surpassed us. We seem to have learnt nothing from these successful teams in the way of development. In fact we have stagnated. We would have laughed only 3 seasons ago at the thought that Wasps would beat us on our own ground, and the difference is Dai Young and his coaching team. The same with Mark McCall et al. Someone mentioned earlier in this thread 'a sea change' coming. I can see that happening but it will take the Board to be strong and have the gonads to act.

I now return to my position below the parapet. I expect the usual slings and arrows.

[philw]

"Hansen - 8 tries in two matches shipped - it isn't working."

Plus 9 tries from the final 2 matches of last season and 12 in the 3 pre-season games this year.

[Roly]

Didn't I say that Mauger wouldn't necessarily bring success way back when the announcement was made that he was joining?

You may well have done, but with Mauger coaching, the team will be 'in transition' until he dies of old age. And people will still swallow it.

[Roly]

I normally keep my head below the parapet but Saturday's performance really depressed me. For probably the first time I have to agree with Roly. New dawn? - same old, same old. Mauger has had his bedding-in season and although our style of play has changed, games are still littered with stupid errors.

These are professional players working in an environment they are used to. If I had made mistakes in my professional career (courtrooms - just as heated and stressful as a rugby pitch) I would have been out of the door quicker than I could say P45.

Having had a go at the players, now to the coaches. I am a fan of Cockers and all he has done for the club but I am left wondering whether he has taken us as far as his abilities will let him. I have watched for many years as teams like Saracens, Wasps, Chiefs etc have surpassed us. We seem to have learnt nothing from these successful teams in the way of development. In fact we have stagnated. We would have laughed only 3 seasons ago at the thought that Wasps would beat us on our own ground, and the difference is Dai Young and his coaching team. The same with Mark McCall et al. Someone mentioned earlier in this thread 'a sea change' coming. I can see that happening but it will take the Board to be strong and have the gonads to act.

I now return to my position below the parapet. I expect the usual slings and arrows.

Oh, you'll get 'em. Despite the fact you're 100% correct.

[JackFlashJonny]

Didn't I say that Mauger wouldn't necessarily bring success way back when the announcement was made that he was joining?

Wow you are brilliant

Most pointless self serving post ever award goes to you!

This Saracens team is special but they will not go the whole premiership season unbeaten due to internationals imo

As for us I am very worried if I am honest..we just look so average in skill level and commitment half the time..

[ourla]

I normally keep my head below the parapet but Saturday's performance really depressed me. For probably the first time I have to agree with Roly.

Really!? That bad. I would get along to the shrink - you should be on suicide watch.

[Maidman]

I have to admit I was pretty devastated on Saturday. I know it is early in the season, but if we are going to be top 4 or even champions, then we need to win those games, even at this stage of the season.

But it is a long season. Chiefs are currently at the bottom of the table, but one supposes they wont stay there. So there will be some changes and developments. Certainly we have had far worse starts to a season, even in seasons where we have gone on to appear in finals and even win the premiership.

So, I think on balance it is perhaps a little early to start being too gloomy, but I have to agree the outlook doesn't look good. And if we can't get to the final this year then I think we seriously need to consider letting Cockers go. I think he is a great man, a superb servant to the club, but somehow it just isn't enough.

I would currently predict an end of season table of
1. Sarries
2. Wasps
3. Bath
4. Chiefs

But I hope I'm wrong.

[Roly]

I normally keep my head below the parapet but Saturday's performance really depressed me. For probably the first time I have to agree with Roly.

Really!? That bad. I would get along to the shrink - you should be on suicide watch.

I get the feeling that some would disagree purely on principle, despite the fact that they'd be demonstrably wrong....

The situation at Tigers is depressing (and has been for a good while), but hardly worthy of ending it all for the sake of admitting it.

[Noddy555]

Lots of you are moaning away like spoilt brats. I was always told never to cry over spilt milk but to make sure that it never happens again, whilst Tigers performance on Saturday was abysmal we should now be concentrating on the match with the Falcons to ensure that we come away with nothing less than 5 points. The harder match will be against Barf on the 25th.

[Roly]

I have to admit I was pretty devastated on Saturday. I know it is early in the season, but if we are going to be top 4 or even champions, then we need to win those games, even at this stage of the season.

But it is a long season. Chiefs are currently at the bottom of the table, but one supposes they wont stay there. So there will be some changes and developments. Certainly we have had far worse starts to a season, even in seasons where we have gone on to appear in finals and even win the premiership.

So, I think on balance it is perhaps a little early to start being too gloomy, but I have to agree the outlook doesn't look good. And if we can't get to the final this year then I think we seriously need to consider letting Cockers go. I think he is a great man, a superb servant to the club, but somehow it just isn't enough.

I would currently predict an end of season table of
1. Sarries
2. Wasps
3. Bath
4. Chiefs

But I hope I'm wrong.

I'd go with that. Tigers might scrape 4th, but they'd get tonked by Saracens in a semi-final.