Emasculated Manu

[fortysix]

Lets cut to the chase...

Manu is a defensive liability.

His attacking attributes re well covered by every opposing Coach.
He has an awful lot to do to get anywhere near a Lions spot. Let alone the full international place

Matt Smith a far better option until Manu grows up

[Roly]

Lets cut to the chase...

Manu is a defensive liability.

His attacking attributes re well covered by every opposing Coach.
He has an awful lot to do to get anywhere near a Lions spot. Let alone the full international place

Matt Smith a far better option until Manu grows up

Nail. Hit. Head.

[JackFlashJonny]

Lets cut to the chase...

Manu is a defensive liability.

His attacking attributes re well covered by every opposing Coach.
He has an awful lot to do to get anywhere near a Lions spot. Let alone the full international place

Matt Smith a far better option until Manu grows up

Nail. Hit. Head.

At 12 yes he is a complete liability but at 13 he is not imo...the issue once again this season for me is we have a squad bar Toomua's arrival completely bereft of a class or even a decent club level out and out 12...

12 is the key defensively which is why Manu was so poor at the weekend..Ant Allen you are very missed..

[northerntiger]

One game back after a very long injury layoff, not in his best position, and suddenly Manu is rubbish!!! I'm glad some of you arn't my boss

[Roly]

One game back after a very long injury layoff, not in his best position, and suddenly Manu is rubbish!!! I'm glad some of you arn't my boss

He isn't suddenly rubbish, he's always been a defensive liability and as he was worked out by most teams a long time ago, he's no longer the attacking threat he once was.

He's only real attribute now appears to be sucking in defenders which again, isn't working like it used to either.

But, he's a 13, not a 12 and would be much more effective if played there. Forget Toomua (Sp), he wont be around until at least December if our experience is anything to go by.

[DC1989]

Some very short memories - anybody remember how good Manu was in attack against Gloucester at the end of last season both making and scoring tries?

[darganj]

What I found astounding is that people think its easier to defend at 13 than 12

13 is the hardest position to defend on the pitch, executing the drift is difficult while still making sure you hit runners coming back against the drift. Manu has been awful at 13 defensively many times, watch Cardiff 2013 for a prime example.

And if you employ a blitz defence the 13 is often the person furthest out of the line blocking off long passes, see Fraser Waters for Wasps.

In Manu's early days, England would defend him at 12 and have Tindall at 13 to make all the hard defensive decisions and control Manu.

Manu is a fantastic player and should be on the pitch but it seemed to be only Lancaster ironically or potentially Farrell that could get him to stick to a defensive pattern

[Roly]

Some very short memories - anybody remember how good Manu was in attack against Gloucester at the end of last season both making and scoring tries?

He's a good club player, no more, no less. If he ever was world class, he isn't now. It seems if you support Tigers it's incumbent on you to hold the Tuilagis in some kind of awe. Alex, whilst a destructive winger, committed howlers worthy of Harry Hill's consideration, but in the eyes of many, he could do no wrong.

Manu needs match time (but personally I'd bench him v Wasps if Smith available). Whether he is a 12 or 13 appears to be up for debate, but wherever he plays, he needs to develop his game.

[DC1989]

Yes of course Alex and Manu are capable of making mistakes....but unfortunately playing steady, reliable players from 9-15 doesn't win you anything. See England post 2003 with players such as Jamie Noon and Brad Barritt playing. They do nothing to make you think they are bad players, but conversely they offer you very little to actually go out and win a game.

Similarly, Matt Smith is a good club player, no more, no less but he is also far less likely to win a game with a moment of brilliance like Manu could. Having watched Wasps last weekend live, I would imagine Cipriani is having sleepless nights thinking about Manu running down his channel- doubt he would be overly concerned with Matt Smith doing the same.

[Roly]

Yes of course Alex and Manu are capable of making mistakes....but unfortunately playing steady, reliable players from 9-15 doesn't win you anything. See England post 2003 with players such as Jamie Noon and Brad Barritt playing. They do nothing to make you think they are bad players, but conversely they offer you very little to actually go out and win a game.

Similarly, Matt Smith is a good club player, no more, no less but he is also far less likely to win a game with a moment of brilliance like Manu could. Having watched Wasps last weekend live, I would imagine Cipriani is having sleepless nights thinking about Manu running down his channel- doubt he would be overly concerned with Matt Smith doing the same.

Willing to bet he isn't you know....

Actually, I'd suggest that Smith is equally as capable as Manu at breaking a defensive line, but he uses a bit more guile. Manu, almost without exception, takes the ball from a standing start and tries to bosh his way through. That's not brilliance, that's one dimensional, and most AP teams have worked it out.

I do agree that Smith is a good club player. No more, no less. Therefore if they're both the same, who'd you pick? The defensively sound and up to speed, or the returning from injury guy likely to go walkabout?

[DC1989]

Well I guess we will never know but having watched Cipriani miss tackles against far less powerful runners than Manu last weekend I would imagine that would be a concern for him.

Regarding Smith being equally as capable at breaking a defensive line as Manu......they have both scored 29 tries for Leicester but Manu has done this in 100 less games....that would suggest he is better at breaking a defensive line.

Whether he has been 'worked out' by the teams in the AP is questionable also, I refer to the home match against Gloucester last season where not only did he score 2, he also created Betham's try in the corner with an offload out the tackle. He was unplayable.

[Roly]

Well I guess we will never know but having watched Cipriani miss tackles against far less powerful runners than Manu last weekend I would imagine that would be a concern for him.

Regarding Smith being equally as capable at breaking a defensive line as Manu......they have both scored 29 tries for Leicester but Manu has done this in 100 less games....that would suggest he is better at breaking a defensive line.

Whether he has been 'worked out' by the teams in the AP is questionable also, I refer to the home match against Gloucester last season where not only did he score 2, he also created Betham's try in the corner with an offload out the tackle. He was unplayable.

Or the selector's choice?

Nobody is saying Tuilagi isn't a good player - but you're forgetting that he had a purple patch where he could quite reasonably have been considered world class. He quite rightly relegated the likes of Smith et el to the bench.

That was then. This is now.

I think its fairly obvious that he's been worked out, but I grant you he's hard to stop. We used to say the same about Jamie Roberts.... ah, those were the days eh.

Cipriani was playing his first game back at Wasps alongside new playing partnerships. He made mistakes as he didn't appear to have an instinctive feel for where his support was, but Wasps still won the match off his vision. Gopperth is in fine form, Wade is mustard. Get them round a player jumping out of the line and you've got Tait to beat.

[mol2]

Manu had a "purple patch" -seemed to start when he was 18 and up until he got injured several times - groin, pectoral, fractured cheekbone and hamstring all in quick succession. Over 2 years of virtually no play and he's being panned. He certainly wasn't our worst player in the Gloucester game.

To claim that Smith is a better centre is pushing credulity. A fit Manu is world class.

Yes Manu looked very rusty defensively and over eager to get back into the game and probably England reckoning. Assuming he stays fit that will come together.
Tigers will have to make the mistake of building all their attacking options around him as that has left them exposed of attacking ideas when he isn't playing. England made that mistake too.

[Roly]

Manu had a "purple patch" -seemed to start when he was 18 and up until he got injured several times - groin, pectoral, fractured cheekbone and hamstring all in quick succession. Over 2 years of virtually no play and he's being panned. He certainly wasn't our worst player in the Gloucester game.

To claim that Smith is a better centre is pushing credulity. A fit Manu is world class.

Yes Manu looked very rusty defensively and over eager to get back into the game and probably England reckoning. Assuming he stays fit that will come together.
Tigers will have to make the mistake of building all their attacking options around him as that has left them exposed of attacking ideas when he isn't playing. England made that mistake too.

I personally am not saying Smith is a better player - more that at this early stage in Tuilagi's return from injury, that he's a better starting option.

I don't buy that he's world class - maybe he was once. I'd be much happier to see him left out of the reckoning by England - his absence hasn't done Eddie Jones any harm so far. Playing him causes the exact problem you describe - that coaches are suckered into planning their game around him. I'm more than happy that he plays for Tigers when fit. But he needs to develop his game, he's not the attacking threat he once was.

[chewbacca]

I have to agree that Manu at the moment does not carry the same threat that he did prior to his injuries. Hardly surprising. The conundrum is how do you rehabilitate a player and return him from injury without him gaining playing time. I tend to agree that 12 does not appear to be his most effective position. There was a period last year when Matt Smith at 12 and Peter Betham at 13 looked very effective. Hopefully this arrangement would allow Manu to gain playing time at 13 without our game plan being built around his presence for 80 mins. Eddie Jones may consider Manu is a 12 I'm more interested in what is best for Tigers