Sam Yawayawa

[Smudge]

OK, with reservations but Odogwu ran in eight great tries and he was one of the
same young chaps we fielded yesterday, just a couple of months ago.

Even allowing for the youth and less experience of our squad, surely this should
ring an alarm bell or two among us?

We are always told that we can't keep every player that comes through the ranks
but this lad was the best player at the tournament, by far. Why the hell was he
playing against us? Why was he allowed to leave? Whose decision was it to let him go?
Frankly, from what I have seen, he is as good a natural player as I have seen in years
and has class written all over him. Does his Dad coach Sale now? No I didn't think so.

[RagingBull]

From what i gather the club has it's reason.

also who are the other gems?

Ford - Which IMO there wasn't much the club could do about it.
Lewington?
Twelvetrees (although his form the last few years don't support it so much)

Who else is a regular starter?

Odogwu is certainly promising but he was only playing Nat 1 last season (Whereas Yawayawa is going to be with a Championship team and will be a year younger) and wasn't a U20 starter in the 6N's and was dropped by the England U20's for the JRWC, I mean just because he impressed in the 7's game doesn't mean he will make it in senior XV rugby. We will find out I'm sure. But life at the club moves on.

We have promoted 3 players this season one of which looks extremely promising.
and i'm sure we will be using the championship, a league and LV cup to access others.

IMO recent the clubs problem hasn't been keeping quality but more having the quality coming up be it through coaching and/or identifying the talent early on. Things seem to be changing IMO in that regards.

[The Boy Dave]

From what i gather the club has it's reason.

also who are the other gems?

Ford - Which IMO there wasn't much the club could do about it.
Lewington?
Twelvetrees (although his form the last few years don't support it so much)

Who else is a regular starter?

Odogwu is certainly promising but he was only playing Nat 1 last season (Whereas Yawayawa is going to be with a Championship team and will be a year younger) and wasn't a U20 starter in the 6N's and was dropped by the England U20's for the JRWC, I mean just because he impressed in the 7's game doesn't mean he will make it in senior XV rugby. We will find out I'm sure. But life at the club moves on.

We have promoted 3 players this season one of which looks extremely promising.
and i'm sure we will be using the championship, a league and LV cup to access others.

IMO recent the clubs problem hasn't been keeping quality but more having the quality coming up be it through coaching and/or identifying the talent early on. Things seem to be changing IMO in that regards.

C. Thacker was dropped for the JRWC from the 6N, is he still on Tigers books?

[RagingBull]

From what i gather the club has it's reason.

also who are the other gems?

Ford - Which IMO there wasn't much the club could do about it.
Lewington?
Twelvetrees (although his form the last few years don't support it so much)

Who else is a regular starter?

Odogwu is certainly promising but he was only playing Nat 1 last season (Whereas Yawayawa is going to be with a Championship team and will be a year younger) and wasn't a U20 starter in the 6N's and was dropped by the England U20's for the JRWC, I mean just because he impressed in the 7's game doesn't mean he will make it in senior XV rugby. We will find out I'm sure. But life at the club moves on.

We have promoted 3 players this season one of which looks extremely promising.
and i'm sure we will be using the championship, a league and LV cup to access others.

IMO recent the clubs problem hasn't been keeping quality but more having the quality coming up be it through coaching and/or identifying the talent early on. Things seem to be changing IMO in that regards.

C. Thacker was dropped for the JRWC from the 6N, is he still on Tigers books?

And?
People are not claiming he is the next gem are they?
Also unlike Odogwu he started 4 of the 5 games in the 6N's. (although not sure that is a good thing).

[The Boy Dave]

From what i gather the club has it's reason.

also who are the other gems?

Ford - Which IMO there wasn't much the club could do about it.
Lewington?
Twelvetrees (although his form the last few years don't support it so much)

Who else is a regular starter?

Odogwu is certainly promising but he was only playing Nat 1 last season (Whereas Yawayawa is going to be with a Championship team and will be a year younger) and wasn't a U20 starter in the 6N's and was dropped by the England U20's for the JRWC, I mean just because he impressed in the 7's game doesn't mean he will make it in senior XV rugby. We will find out I'm sure. But life at the club moves on.

We have promoted 3 players this season one of which looks extremely promising.
and i'm sure we will be using the championship, a league and LV cup to access others.

IMO recent the clubs problem hasn't been keeping quality but more having the quality coming up be it through coaching and/or identifying the talent early on. Things seem to be changing IMO in that regards.

C. Thacker was dropped for the JRWC from the 6N, is he still on Tigers books?

And?
People are not claiming he is the next gem are they?
Also unlike Odogwu he started 4 of the 5 games in the 6N's. (although not sure that is a good thing).

Makes the point about being dropped from the JRWC a pointless one!
I think anyone who knows the system and the pecking order knows exactly what has gone on here.
Odogwu seems to have done alright for himself so far anyway.
He is better than what has been kept on though, any fool could see that!

[Snorbins]

He looked good in the 7's but thats not the game that pays the bills. Be interesting to see his game time with the big boys!

[The Boy Dave]

He looked good in the 7's but thats not the game that pays the bills. Be interesting to see his game time with the big boys!

Agreed.
We saw some potential though, on eight occasions, and like the try versus Argentina in the XV's game last season.

[wormus]

He looked good in the 7's but thats not the game that pays the bills. Be interesting to see his game time with the big boys!

Agreed.
We saw some potential though, on eight occasions, and like the try versus Argentina in the XV's game last season.

I watched the Sevens on ITV last night and yes the Tigers shirts looked the best and most identifiable of the team unlike others. Disappointing display from Tigers again.
Having seen Odogwu on Monday nights A team games & v Argentina I feel Tigers have given away Tigers equivalent of Christian Wade, he is a proven speedy wing and I feel the loss of Lewington, Varndell and others - wrong move with Odogwu why could he not be dual reg. with Nottingham too or a another club?

[MikeR]

I've seen quite a lot of Odogwa over the last year or so . Pretty average in defence and can't kick , but the best natural attacking talent we have had for years . I would have thought the weaker parts of his game could be improved - after all he is still young - and I was astonished that we released him .

[jgriffin]

The problem? There isn't one. A modern back 3 player has to be capable of filling either wing or FB in a flexible lineup. So blitzing pace is helpful, evasion is better, good receiving and solid defence is essential and above all the requisite functions between the ears. That's why Thommo's still there as he has demonstrated all of these.
While Odogwu has clearly got at least one or two of these, and the ones that make 7s players, one or more of the rquirements may well be lacking, and this is something only the coaches will grasp fully. Personally I feel if the club has input from AM, Smurf and Ant, and they let Odogwu go, then I'm comfortable with that.

[trendylfj]

Pace becomes much more important if you have space to use it or can create your own because of your pace. We all know the 7's game is a totally different game than 15-a-side otherwise why pick a "specialist 7's squad" for the international games. In the old days you kept the ball away from your flyer until there was the space for him to exploit. I really hope that as Odogwu develops, he doesn't become just a 7's player but, if that is his skill set, then so be it. We are a 15-a-side club and need players who are going to develop or can play that game not 7's players.

[The Boy Dave]

The problem? There isn't one. A modern back 3 player has to be capable of filling either wing or FB in a flexible lineup. So blitzing pace is helpful, evasion is better, good receiving and solid defence is essential and above all the requisite functions between the ears. That's why Thommo's still there as he has demonstrated all of these.
While Odogwu has clearly got at least one or two of these, and the ones that make 7s players, one or more of the rquirements may well be lacking, and this is something only the coaches will grasp fully. Personally I feel if the club has input from AM, Smurf and Ant, and they let Odogwu go, then I'm comfortable with that.

Personally I think it can sometimes be over thought jgriffin.
Odogwu's game is very simple, he's a lethal finisher with dancing feet who could open up games for himself and others against mean defences.
He's very much like a young Veainu in that respect.
He will never be a full back but as a winger he has scary pace and the ability to use those feet that keeps defences honest that most importantly these days creates space elsewhere.
We have seen Sarries rush and drift in effect against us, players like Odogwu make that rush and drift have to rethink, they can change the dynamics completely.
Comparisons with Christian Wade are fair, he could be better than Wade as he is only 19, still eligible himself for U20 age grade rugby and already looks stronger.
It's horses for courses and surely a player like Odogwu can be accommodated over what are some very average players that have been retained.
What is most troubling is seeing what is retained instead, it was not great and I emphasize the word great at a club that is used to and has churned out some great players in the past!
It was only one sevens tournament but the lad squeezed plenty in what limited time he had to show what he can do, he answered some questions IMO.

[Smudge]

I totally agree.

[darganj]

The problem? There isn't one. A modern back 3 player has to be capable of filling either wing or FB in a flexible lineup. So blitzing pace is helpful, evasion is better, good receiving and solid defence is essential and above all the requisite functions between the ears. That's why Thommo's still there as he has demonstrated all of these.
While Odogwu has clearly got at least one or two of these, and the ones that make 7s players, one or more of the rquirements may well be lacking, and this is something only the coaches will grasp fully. Personally I feel if the club has input from AM, Smurf and Ant, and they let Odogwu go, then I'm comfortable with that.

Personally I think it can sometimes be over thought jgriffin.
Odogwu's game is very simple, he's a lethal finisher with dancing feet who could open up games for himself and others against mean defences.
He's very much like a young Veainu in that respect.
He will never be a full back but as a winger he has scary pace and the ability to use those feet that keeps defences honest that most importantly these days creates space elsewhere.
We have seen Sarries rush and drift in effect against us, players like Odogwu make that rush and drift have to rethink, they can change the dynamics completely.
Comparisons with Christian Wade are fair, he could be better than Wade as he is only 19, still eligible himself for U20 age grade rugby and already looks stronger.
It's horses for courses and surely a player like Odogwu can be accommodated over what are some very average players that have been retained.
What is most troubling is seeing what is retained instead, it was not great and I emphasize the word great at a club that is used to and has churned out some great players in the past!
It was only one sevens tournament but the lad squeezed plenty in what limited time he had to show what he can do, he answered some questions IMO.

Completely agreed. Its a very English rugby thing to go on about what players can't do rather than what they can do.

At the end of the day, you win games by scoring more points than the opposition. And Odogwu will score you a lot more points than he costs you, exactly the same as Wade at club level

[johnthegriff]

If a player literally cannot kick a ball by the age of twenty you can't teach him to do it well. If he is unwilling to tackle then he is not going to earn a place in a Premiership team without a massive change from the player. Time will tell if any player released by Tigers has the talent and is determined to succeed then they will make the grade elsewhere. At the moment I cannot think of any young player other than Big Jim Hamilton and George Ford who has left Tigers and commanded a regular place with a top four club.