European Final

Forum to discuss everything that is Tigers related

Moderators: Rizzo, Tigerbeat, Tigers Press Office, Tigers Webmaster

ellis9
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4187
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:44 pm
Location: Birmingham

European Final

Post by ellis9 » Sat May 14, 2016 9:55 pm

It seems to be European finalists, you can play boring rugby.

Just like I've been saying for a long time.

Smudge
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1695
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:20 pm
Location: Gosport

Re: European Final

Post by Smudge » Sun May 15, 2016 4:56 pm

It proves two things! Cheats DO prosper and Yes you CAN BUY SUCCESS!
A life long Tiger

Roly
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2351
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:02 pm

Re: European Final

Post by Roly » Mon May 16, 2016 8:50 am

Smudge wrote:It proves two things! Cheats DO prosper and Yes you CAN BUY SUCCESS!
Every team plays as close to the edge of legality as possible (and beyond if they can get away with it). The crime is very much getting caught. Richie McCaw was on the ragged edge all of the time, he's still considered to be one of the best players to have played the sport.

As for buying success. I can't remember the exact number who actually played, but before the match it was possible that Saracens could have had 10 England internationals in the starting XV, five of whom are products of their own academy. Sarries are actually doing a really good job with their academy now. the perception of Sarries as overpaid South African mercenaries is long out of date. They may or may not have been in breach of the salary cap, however, its clear that they're spending the money on home grown talent where possible and have invested heavily in future growth.

Also worth noting that Sarries had 4 players in Englands WC u20 squad, alongside Leeds (I think) that also had 4. The rest of the clubs had 3 or fewer representatives.

I suspect there's something of the green eyed monster in many of us when it comes to 'boring' Saracens.
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.

ellis9
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4187
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:44 pm
Location: Birmingham

Re: European Final

Post by ellis9 » Mon May 16, 2016 9:21 am

Jealous of Saracens?! Not a chance!

Roly
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2351
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:02 pm

Re: European Final

Post by Roly » Mon May 16, 2016 9:46 am

ellis9 wrote:Jealous of Saracens?! Not a chance!

I certainly wouldn't expect anyone on here to admit it....
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.

Noddy555
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2823
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:32 pm

Re: European Final

Post by Noddy555 » Mon May 16, 2016 10:49 am

You never know maybe Sarries will have an adverse reaction this Saturday and then we can look forward to yet another final at Twickers.

Roly
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2351
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:02 pm

Re: European Final

Post by Roly » Mon May 16, 2016 10:53 am

Noddy555 wrote:You never know maybe Sarries will have an adverse reaction this Saturday and then we can look forward to yet another final at Twickers.
I wondered if winning the final may have taken a lot out of Saracens or whether it will have buoyed their confidence to the point that tigers are going to get whupped.

I suspect the latter.
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.

Cardiff Tig
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 939
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:25 pm

Re: European Final

Post by Cardiff Tig » Mon May 16, 2016 11:00 am

Smudge wrote:It proves two things! Cheats DO prosper and Yes you CAN BUY SUCCESS!
But if you look at the Sarries team there aren't that many that would be on massive salaries. Probably a similar number of high paid players to Tigers...

Soggypitch
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1967
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:18 pm
Location: Market Harborough

Re: European Final

Post by Soggypitch » Mon May 16, 2016 12:26 pm

Sarries deserved this title. They do not play boring rugby,(look at how many tries they have scored this season), they play pragmatically. Just like the All Blacks do.

They have a core of English talent and much to the surprise of many (including me) they seem to have developed a brilliant team spirit/togetherness.

I'm sure Richard Cockerill does aspire to play very similarly to Sarries, it is really very Leicester, far more so than Bath's style last year - and even more so this year!!

So yes Saracens are currently the best team in England and probably Europe, but that doesn't mean we can't beat them on Saturday. Yes we will need our best side out (BOC and Manu), but if we play our best then we do have the talent to win, given a little luck and some real self belief.

Next year with our new additions and the likes of Tom Youngs and Mike Williams returning to fitness, I fully expect to be challenging Sarries for top spot and leaving Exeter/Wasps in our wake.
Soggypitch

jgriffin
Super User
Super User
Posts: 6598
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:49 pm
Location: On the edge of oblivion

Re: European Final

Post by jgriffin » Mon May 16, 2016 12:27 pm

Cardiff Tig wrote:
Smudge wrote:It proves two things! Cheats DO prosper and Yes you CAN BUY SUCCESS!
But if you look at the Sarries team there aren't that many that would be on massive salaries. Probably a similar number of high paid players to Tigers...
Depends what you call massive...Cashton was on £300k when Strettle was there on £250k; what will the Vunipolas, Fazlet, Goode be on as current internationals of over a year's standing (the former two bought as internationals)? Kruis and Itoje will have been on little last year, not now. Agree that the salary bill will be less this year than 2-3 years ago, but that's another story......
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.

tigercaspian
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1282
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:56 pm

Re: European Final

Post by tigercaspian » Mon May 16, 2016 1:11 pm

Soggypitch wrote:Sarries deserved this title. They do not play boring rugby,(look at how many tries they have scored this season), they play pragmatically. Just like the All Blacks do.

They have a core of English talent and much to the surprise of many (including me) they seem to have developed a brilliant team spirit/togetherness.

I'm sure Richard Cockerill does aspire to play very similarly to Sarries, it is really very Leicester, far more so than Bath's style last year - and even more so this year!!

So yes Saracens are currently the best team in England and probably Europe, but that doesn't mean we can't beat them on Saturday. Yes we will need our best side out (BOC and Manu), but if we play our best then we do have the talent to win, given a little luck and some real self belief.

Next year with our new additions and the likes of Tom Youngs and Mike Williams returning to fitness, I fully expect to be challenging Sarries for top spot and leaving Exeter/Wasps in our wake.
Agreed: the last two or three seasons they have played some really good rugby.

To win against Racing, they went back to their style from 4 seasons back or so and it did the trick. Boring, effective, silverware in the cabinet....Given the choice, would I have silverware in the cabinet or silky skills that win nothing?? The former please.

TigerCam
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3618
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:41 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: European Final

Post by TigerCam » Mon May 16, 2016 1:40 pm

Roly wrote:
Noddy555 wrote:You never know maybe Sarries will have an adverse reaction this Saturday and then we can look forward to yet another final at Twickers.
I wondered if winning the final may have taken a lot out of Saracens or whether it will have buoyed their confidence to the point that tigers are going to get whupped.

I suspect the latter.
Sarries are consistently good but beatable. I would imagine that they will be buoyed up for the game on Saturday just as the Tigers would be. There is a point to prove and being double champs does the biz. As the ECC final was a slog-fest in poor conditions, it may have taken a fair bit of energy out of them so they may start well but, as has happen to the Tigers in finals past, the energy may run out in the second 40. If the Tigers can make them work really hard for every ball and keep field position then the Tigers can take it.

dunc
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 282
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:19 am

Re: European Final

Post by dunc » Mon May 16, 2016 1:44 pm

Hmmm, a side winning their first Euro title after failed attempts in previous seasons. A side who are known for their committed, uncompromising and pragmatic approach. A side who are more creative and expansive than their stereotype gives them credit for. A side built on a core of homegrown English qualified players with a good blend of quality international imports. A side containing England's second row engine room. A side with a north American who has made a name for himself since joining. A side with a cheeky winger from Wigan who antagonises nearly everyone he meets. A side who push the law to the limit and sometimes pay the price with disciplinary action. A side renowned for their culture and way of doing things. A side with a world class goal kicker. A side that is viewed with hostility by the rest of the country.

All true of Saracens now and Tigers back in 2001. If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery then let's stop knocking Saracens and thank them for the complement they have just paid us.

dunc
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 282
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:19 am

Re: European Final

Post by dunc » Mon May 16, 2016 1:45 pm

oh and let's put them back in their box this weekend. :smt001

ellis9
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4187
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:44 pm
Location: Birmingham

Re: European Final

Post by ellis9 » Mon May 16, 2016 3:08 pm

Let me clarify 3 things.

Firstly, I couldn't care less how we play if we win.

Secondly, when I said Sarries were boring, I was basing it on many fans on here moaning at how we played last season- lets face it, there were no out of your seat moments on Saturday.

Finally, this point is for Roly- I am not jealous of Sarries. If I was, I'd admit I was, there's no harm in admitting if that's how you feel. I get the impression that maybe you are?

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Chobbsy, RagingBull and 2 guests