WiggoTiger wrote:Our game management has been poor all season and we drop too many balls/give turnovers away when we are in good attacking positions. Ben Youngs has been slow off the base all season, he mucked about with ball in the Euro semi.
I'm hopeful for next season if we can get the forwards playing more consistently and with control. We need to believe more in getting the ball to the speedsters in space!!
Believe the final is between the best two teams across the whole season, Wasps played some great rugby but were inconsistent.
Bring on next season!!
+1
Back to basics may help?
Whoever said "one person cannot change the world' never ate undercooked bat
I'm not sure I agree with this "team in transition" malarkey. All teams are always in transition as players and coaches come and go. The truth is that Aaron Mauger and his defence (?) sidekick perfected the off-loading game with the All Blacks and Canterbury - both dominant teams. The All Blacks don't off-load if they are under pressure - they revert to keep-ball. This season Leicester persistently off-load when they are under pressure - usually to one of the opposition, as we saw today. Mauger has had a whole season with us now, and if anything performances are worse now than at the beginning.
ancientmariner wrote:I'm not sure I agree with this "team in transition" malarkey. All teams are always in transition as players and coaches come and go. The truth is that Aaron Mauger and his defence (?) sidekick perfected the off-loading game with the All Blacks and Canterbury - both dominant teams. The All Blacks don't off-load if they are under pressure - they revert to keep-ball. This season Leicester persistently off-load when they are under pressure - usually to one of the opposition, as we saw today. Mauger has had a whole season with us now, and if anything performances are worse now than at the beginning.
It take time to change. when the change is radical it take a lot of effort. When a player, side, team get under pressure they make mistakes and return to type because it is ingrained. Tigers play is different, maybe there is a need to change a few players but on the whole I am prepared to wait for a season to two to enjoy the change.
Whoever said "one person cannot change the world' never ate undercooked bat
The Happy Clappers are a bit like the Remain Campaign.
Cant see the wood from the trees !!
We have had 3 purgatory years.. The Doom Mongers have kept quiet to give Mauger a chance, but even with him, still totally useless basic technical skills under pressure.
Which is the only time that matters...
In most businesses, in most clubs, Cockerill would be heading for his P45
There are 2 really good alternatives, Pat Lam and Deano/ Wells combo
Let us not forget the only time we ever won anything important was under those two....
I know full well the Tigers Board is time warp, but hey, isnt it about time for some action?
Or am I going to replicate this a year from today ?? As per the previous 3 years !!!!
Agreed, work in progress but not devoid of optimism. We had good days this season, and created. Last year, as far as I can remember, we didn't. I also think that people disregarding the effect of being able to breach the salary cap are naive and deluded. As in all walks of life, being able to spend more confers an advantage, you still have to use that advantage well (as Bath have shown) but if we'd have been able to keep all the players we wanted and to steal first pick players from other top teams then we'd probably be rather better. I simply don't believe Sarries could have assembled that squad and team if they'd consistently complied with the cap over the past 5 years. Why d'you think Man City and Chelsea have won so much? Poor managers and coaching at other teams? Or cold hard cash? Saracen's MVP remains Nigel Wray's wallet. You can change coaches as often as you like but it won't level the playing field.
fortysix wrote:The Happy Clappers are a bit like the Remain Campaign.
Cant see the wood from the trees !!
We have had 3 purgatory years.. The Doom Mongers have kept quiet to give Mauger a chance, but even with him, still totally useless basic technical skills under pressure.
Which is the only time that matters...
In most businesses, in most clubs, Cockerill would be heading for his P45
There are 2 really good alternatives, Pat Lam and Deano/ Wells combo
Let us not forget the only time we ever won anything important was under those two....
I know full well the Tigers Board is time warp, but hey, isnt it about time for some action?
Or am I going to replicate this a year from today ?? As per the previous 3 years !!!!
Nothing like somebody wanting to turn the clock back 15 years whilst accusing others of being stuck in a time warp!
In my opinion scrum half is pivotal as to how a team play, today we saw Ben hesitate, stand waving his arms whilst looking away from the ball at the base of the ruck etc, he then took several steps across the pitch allowing the Sarries cows horn to come around, when he did pass it was then a flat pass and the Sarries defence was up on the man putting pressure on and usually causing a knock on or loss of the ball whilst going backwards. There is a lot to say for Sam Harrison who gets the ball away from the base much quicker allowing the fly half time to make a decision as to what to do. Slow ball from Ben does not get down the line fast enough to our backs who can look brilliant, if they hang onto the ball, but going backwards just puts them under pressure and causes mistakes.
Do we need a scrum half coach, can't see Ben being selected by EJ, we also need a specialist skills coach, too many spilt balls!
Sorry to pick on him, he started well today but just lately it has been blatantly obvious to me he is not the player he was!
Sarries were miles better than us today, yes some of our problems were caused by their pressure but why were we so headless at times just offloading without thought as to where theball was going?
It's ok playing attacking rugby but you have to have the skill levels to go with it!
Just before anyone says I am a doom monger, I'm just trying to analyse where we are and causes for being so badly beaten. Our 2, wife and self, 2017 season tickets are already been paid for, that's a lot of money for OAP and I do have a right to make my point!
fortysix wrote:The Happy Clappers are a bit like the Remain Campaign.
Cant see the wood from the trees !!
We have had 3 purgatory years.. The Doom Mongers have kept quiet to give Mauger a chance, but even with him, still totally useless basic technical skills under pressure.
Which is the only time that matters...
In most businesses, in most clubs, Cockerill would be heading for his P45
There are 2 really good alternatives, Pat Lam and Deano/ Wells combo
Let us not forget the only time we ever won anything important was under those two....
I know full well the Tigers Board is time warp, but hey, isnt it about time for some action?
Or am I going to replicate this a year from today ?? As per the previous 3 years !!!!
What hass the EUI to do with it? Don't tell me the EU causes forward passes. Witless toss and typical of some on here.
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.
Just before anyone says I am a doom monger, I'm just trying to analyse where we are and causes for being so badly beaten. Our 2, wife and self, 2017 season tickets are already been paid for, that's a lot of money for OAP and I do have a right to make my point!
You should not be made to feel bad for airing your views and by some people who don't even attend matches.
It seems lost on many that at half time it was 31-0.
Had Sarries carried on their high level of the first half into the second half and not merely passed the time as a mere training exercise and J P Doyle not kindly allowed an obvious forward pass for our first try then it could've been even more embarrassing.
As it was I think 44-17 is enough, in the circumstances 44-17 flattered the Tigers!
It could get better next season, it might not, personally I think others will also improve and a top four place will be very difficult.
First and foremost, I am proud of the team. They gave it a real lash but the same slippery hands we saw in Notttingham were on show again today. But for that 3 probable tries went begging.
Secondly, how many of us were out of our seats on 45 seconds? Rightly disallowed but a beautiful move.
Thirdly, it wasn't until the kick through for Cashton's 2nd try that I saw a lessening of our effort - Itoje wanted it more than we did.
Fourthly, despite a more attractive game, we are, by results over the season, no further forward or further back, than the last two seasons. The revolution may be televised but it is currently running late.
Fifth, Sarries are the best team in the Prem by a country mile at the moment. Those of you who think we simply had to turn up to win today are deluded.
Finally, the Sarries pitch has to go: it gives them a clear and obvious advantage
We were there yesterday and Tigers, as someone else has said won the second half.Truth is though our defence and game management was awful. I didn't expect to win but it is obvious that unless we had a full side out, (Sarries have had no injuries for the last few weeks)we wouldn't compete. In defence today we missed Thommo(I know he came on-but too late) and Matt Smith. Well done to Sarries, their fans were great, ground is good too and they have now well and truly replaced us as the team to beat. Tigers' board and coaching staff have to move on, be totally honest next season and stop the excuses. It would help too if we selected a fit team!!!!
tigercaspian wrote:Finally, the Sarries pitch has to go: it gives them a clear and obvious advantage
I agree it does give an advantage, however Newcastle also have one and Worcs is being installed for next season! That will mean 25% of premiership pitches are plastic, so although they aren't for everyone they are almost certainly here to stay.
It does also mean that any advantages will be somewhat reigned in as the other teams get more used to playing on them as well.
Neither a happy clapper or doom monger I be! But what does it matter how people view things we all have an opinion.
As I have stated previously on the forum my view is that on the whole settled teams win things. This Saracens team didn't appear overnight it has been built very successfully over a number of seasons and has culminated in a dominant side that pretty much picks itself.
Tigers on the other hand have a team that is fundamentally different to that of last season and has a new coaching set up to go with it. I won't use the 'transition' word as it will provoke an immediate and negative reaction on here but do we really believe that a new team and new coach are going to win things first time out?
I was at Allianz park yesterday and yes it embarrassing, humiliating etc but I think the Tigers had the right tactics, quick ball, chip and chase but unfortunately the execution was terrible on a lot of occasions and the bounce of the ball defeated us on a couple more. Having said that we are a long way behind Sarries and we have to build a settled team. I'm sure Mauger will decide whether the players he has can improve their skills and decision making or not.
I think my point is let's try and avoid tearing everything up and starting again as I think that's the worst approach possible. Build on the positives of which there are many, most people seem to agree that we're better than last season. The start of next season will be the measure, we won't lose too many players to summer tours, the squad should be rested and fit by September. I'll be expecting to be in a good place in both competitions by Christmas.
Enjoy your summer everyone, onwards and upwards in 16/17.
If you don't go in hard it's not a tackle it's an insult.
After looking back at the game, I may go slightly happy clapper..we lost, badly, however at least we are not Bath. They were the media darlings last year and now they have no head coach due to his alleged indiscretion with a member of the clubs female staff and inability to improve on the pitch. 2nd to 9th...not great.
Sarries, as some other poster pointed out are a settled team. Not much in or out transfers that I can see (could be wrong) so they know structures from start to finish. If we start ripping the team apart, we will be where we are now or lower. Keep the nucleus of players and the world class stars we have coming in and go with them. Tearing up the team because of this result would be daft and really counter productive.
I am not sure if anyone spoke to JP Doyle about the offside, but that is a captains responsibility. "Sir, they appear to be coming up quite quickly on our line. Not sure they are super human, so would you mind checking the offside for me?" Or words to that effect. Leadership.
Our back line is the most exciting I have seen for some time. Add in our two new Southern Hemisphere signings and that is looking very quick and very potent. I believe that we need a new number 8, Opeti is a good destructive ball carrier that coming off the bench against a tiring team is match winning, but we need a more dynamic 8.
Genge and Barrow look ones for the now and the future, so that is looking good. Thacker, is clearly a very talented rugby player. Horses for courses I say, lighter packs he is a hooker heavier then number 7. Easier said than done but a talent that we should use.
If, at the beginning of the season we would have been offered a 4th place and two semis, one at home, I would imagine that most realistic posters would have jumped at that, so progress. Same position in the league, with more flair and tries, and a home semi final in the cup. Progress.
So, I am sorry if this is a bit happy clappy, but we lost to a better team, who we need to catch up with.
