2015/16 Squad/Contracts/Rumours and Transfers Thread Part 4

[jonlin]

Yeh but no one cares.

No one wants to see the big picture.

Who cares about the influence of Thorn and JDV in the wider training squad.

Who cares about training.

Let's all talk about how much he is on and a waste of money. Despite knowing absolutely nothing about how much he is on.

I can't imagine he had any involvement in helping to sign JPP either.

You have raised some good points RagingBull!
The point that Thorn and JDV influencing the wider training squad is a good one.
If they have had such influence then why do we need so many coaches and why did Tigers need to sign Barrow and Fitzgerald and Mike Williams for this season after Thorn was around to teach Kitchener and De Chaves and Wells and Makymiw etc last year!
Similarly if JDV has is rumoured to have been so good in teaching players this year then surely that training ground influence should bare some fruit in the likes of Catchpole and Odogwu, so why need to sign Toomua or JPP?
Call me cynical but it all seems like the PR machine in full flow!

Would not describe you as cynical Boy Dave, probably just not up to speed.

[The Boy Dave]

Would not describe you as cynical Boy Dave, probably just not up to speed.

A thoughtful and well written post from jonlin, congratulations!

[Cagey Tiger]

We would all have preferred him to have had more game time - I'm sure he feels the same - but player value runs much deeper.

This valid point is lost on those that judge a team by 80 minutes once a week. JDV sustained injuries after he came (it happens!), and his 'players perspective' has contributed to not just skill and strategy but also mindsets, which has been significant and influential, ask the players!

The arrogance of this post..

The majority of posters on here love to call people with a view opposite to their own as stupid or try to belittle opinions just because it may show the club in a less than positive manner...

Yes we understand JDV has helped on both those aspects mentioned but was he signed for those? No he was signed to play rugby

No, he was signed to play rugby AND to help develop other players with the benefit of his experience. If you only wanted someone to play rugby, I'm sure they could have found someone of similar abilities, but lesser experience, and for less money.

[G.K]

I've heard similar things about his contribution on the training ground and in meetings. All highly positive.

We had similar PR with Andy Farrell pre RWC. Simple fact is we signed JDV as a player not to chair meetings. Unlucky or poor recruitment? Guess we'll never know for sure.

[RagingBull]

I've heard similar things about his contribution on the training ground and in meetings. All highly positive.

We had similar PR with Andy Farrell pre RWC. Simple fact is we signed JDV as a player not to chair meetings. Unlucky or poor recruitment? Guess we'll never know for sure.

Unlucky there you go.

[Gramps]

Dagg just had a fantastic 60 minutes for The Crusaders

[Grumpy of Crumbie]

It will be very interesting to read the views on here should the worst happen and Toomua or Pietersen sustain a season ending injury in the first game for Tigers or even worse a career ending injury. Waste of money?

I think there is pretty much unanimous agreement that these are good signings. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Or is it an ageist argument and as long as you're in your twenties you are forgiven long term injuries?

[Iain]

The logic behind signing JDV was sound. It was a good idea as the best possible stopgap before Toomua arrives. Unfortunately it didn't work out, nobody was to know that he'd pick up the injuries he had. As it turns out, the form of Matt Smith and Manu Tuilagi has meant it's not really mattered in the end.

To blame him or show animosity towards him for the injuries he's had or to blame the club for signing him is a bit weird if I'm honest.

[trendylfj]

The logic behind signing JDV was sound. It was a good idea as the best possible stopgap before Toomua arrives. Unfortunately it didn't work out, nobody was to know that he'd pick up the injuries he had. As it turns out, the form of Matt Smith and Manu Tuilagi has meant it's not really mattered in the end.

To blame him or show animosity towards him for the injuries he's had or to blame the club for signing him is a bit weird if I'm honest.

Totally agree with this - I was really excited with his signing and like any signing, it can go wrong. I don't think this has gone wrong - just unlucky.

[strawclearer]

The logic behind signing JDV was sound. It was a good idea as the best possible stopgap before Toomua arrives. Unfortunately it didn't work out, nobody was to know that he'd pick up the injuries he had. As it turns out, the form of Matt Smith and Manu Tuilagi has meant it's not really mattered in the end.

To blame him or show animosity towards him for the injuries he's had or to blame the club for signing him is a bit weird if I'm honest.

More than 'a bit weird' and your post (imho) is spot on!

[LE18]

Just to add a little logic to this argument, to sign a 20+ player who gets an injury, unless it is career ending, has a good chance of recovering before the end of his career. To sign a 30+ player with numerous injury problems and who has just had to pull out of World Cup, who is rapidly approaching the end of his career is statistically a poor risk.
No one can really say how much benefit he has been to us on the training ground, purely subjective, ever if he was on a pittance of a salary, statistically that was a poor return for the amount of time he spent on the pitch as a player.

[Iain]

But the injury he had in the World Cup was a broken jaw. It just needed recovering from and isn't a recurring type of injury that will keep causing problems. Neither did it do so.

[darganj]

The logic behind signing JDV was sound. It was a good idea as the best possible stopgap before Toomua arrives. Unfortunately it didn't work out, nobody was to know that he'd pick up the injuries he had. As it turns out, the form of Matt Smith and Manu Tuilagi has meant it's not really mattered in the end.

To blame him or show animosity towards him for the injuries he's had or to blame the club for signing him is a bit weird if I'm honest.

More than 'a bit weird' and your post (imho) is spot on!

Entirely disagree.

You are assuming that injuries are pure fluke and that there is no possible way of predicting them.

De Villiers has been so injury prone in last 4 years, Henry Trinder esque levels. He has had more knee injuries than any other pro rugby player. He looked so skinny in lower body at world cup and looked fragile

I wouldn't touch either player with a barge pole. And don't say this is hindsight as I said it at the time. I would also say the same about Liam Williams, Halfpenny, Tommy Bowe etc

Those players play hardly any club games and aren't worth the money.

De Villiers was money poured down the toilet

[Grumpy of Crumbie]

I agree it may have been a poor return but that doesn't necessarily make it a poor decision. I assume he would have had a full medical before signing and presumably only the broken jaw needed to recover.

[Farmboy]

So I take it that people wouldn't sign Dan Carter on a resonable wage as he has had several injuries.