Job Marler racially abusing a Welsh player? No Sanction

[h's dad]

Don't feed the troll folks.

He's sad and becoming increasingly desperate...

Back under your bridge!

Some of us like to water the daffodil.

[strawclearer]

Don't feed the troll folks.

He's sad and becoming increasingly desperate...

Back under your bridge!

Quite the best approach for a thread which has been done to death!

Most contributors seem to think Marler was in the wrong and should receive an appropriate slap on the wrist with a 2 - 4 week ban. Conversely, the trolls on here are behaving like fun filled little lollipops triple dipped in psycho!

Best to ignore them and not feed their rancour with any more posts.

Oh and I apologise if I've offended any lollipops.

[h's dad]

I am not condoning Marler's actions for one second but the straws some people will desperately clutch at are laughable.

As a matter of interest, if the only words used were 'Gypsy boy' then where is the racism if Samson Lee does in fact have gypsy roots? It is a statement of fact, isn't it? Perhaps Marler should be done for ageism for referring to a grown man as a boy.

Would there have been as much resentment from the English sector if Lee had called Marler 'English boy'? I don't think so. Then again, we don't get that mardy when we lose.

No, come on, you and I both know that the use of his ethnic origin is used as a derogatory term in this case.

If you're condoning this then you'd have to conclude you condone apartheid era South Africa and the derogatory use of "black boy". I mean... they were black I suppose so it was a statement of fact.

Iain, that's drivel. Surely you know that?

[Donny]

If you're condoning this then you'd have to conclude you condone apartheid era South Africa and the derogatory use of "black boy". I mean... they were black I suppose so it was a statement of fact.

Which part of the phrase "I'm not condoning Marler's actions for a second" are you having problems understanding?

In a game of rugby, there are thirty bags of testosterone on the pitch and, in the heat of the moment, words can and will be said. 99.9% of the time they are soon forgotten or the recipient will give as good as they get. For the remaining 0.1%, these words are picked up on the ref's microphone and suddenly all the meusli-knitting Guardian readers are aghast in horror.

It was decided Marler had done wrong and he apologised to Lee. My guess is Lee accepted the apology, considered the matter closed and they probably shared a pint after the match.

[jonlin]

+1[/quote]

Marler used someone's ethnic origin as an insult. That's not acceptable whichever way you wish to dress it up. It's no more acceptable than using "black boy", "Jew boy" or any other ethnic origin as an insult.

It seems that some seem to think that gypsies are fair game for some reason and more acceptable to abuse than other races. Not sure why. Marler was clearly one of them, and has learned a difficult lesson about his ignorance.[/quote]
Gipsies are not a race, they are an ethnic minority.

[Iain]

I am not condoning Marler's actions for one second but the straws some people will desperately clutch at are laughable.

As a matter of interest, if the only words used were 'Gypsy boy' then where is the racism if Samson Lee does in fact have gypsy roots? It is a statement of fact, isn't it? Perhaps Marler should be done for ageism for referring to a grown man as a boy.

Would there have been as much resentment from the English sector if Lee had called Marler 'English boy'? I don't think so. Then again, we don't get that mardy when we lose.

No, come on, you and I both know that the use of his ethnic origin is used as a derogatory term in this case.

If you're condoning this then you'd have to conclude you condone apartheid era South Africa and the derogatory use of "black boy". I mean... they were black I suppose so it was a statement of fact.

Iain, that's drivel. Surely you know that?

Is it? In what way is it different?

Which part of the phrase "I'm not condoning Marler's actions for a second" are you having problems understanding?

The bit where you then went on to condone it, to be fair.

In a game of rugby, there are thirty bags of testosterone on the pitch and, in the heat of the moment, words can and will be said. 99.9% of the time they are soon forgotten or the recipient will give as good as they get. For the remaining 0.1%, these words are picked up on the ref's microphone and suddenly all the meusli-knitting Guardian readers are aghast in horror.

That's just nonsense.

It was decided Marler had done wrong and he apologised to Lee. My guess is Lee accepted the apology, considered the matter closed and they probably shared a pint after the match.

Quite probably. And it will probably reduce the ban Marler gets.

Gipsies are not a race, they are an ethnic minority.

I'm very sorry for the technical error. Is it okay to abuse ethnic minorities rather than races then?


End of the day, he's committed an offence out of his own ignorance. Probably on the low end of the scale, but he'll get a ban for it. Rightly so too. It was heard on the microphones and the message needs to be clear that it's out of order.

I do not for one minute think Marler is a racist, but he's guilty of an offensive slur that he probably should have known better than to do. It'll be a ban, his apology will be taken into account in his credit, and we'll all move on. Along the way, a few people will have learned that it's not acceptable. All's positive, job done.

[Jimmy Skitz]

fine doc England the game for Marler's comment but then expel Wales from this and all future 6N's and World Cups for the use of "English ..." as a racist insult, its the only way they will learn after the years of torrential racist abuse they have dished out

[Cagey Tiger]

Are Gysies defined as a race.
Yes.
Did Marler used racist language.
Yes.
"Whataboutery" and "Obfuscation" is one thing, but it is cut and dried.

Now..with the very recent and homophobic and racial abuse of Nigel Owens, at Twickenham still fresh in the mind.. and now this deplorable abuse of the travelling Gypsy community, you seriously have to wonder what exactly is English Rugby all about?

What sort of people play English rugby and what sorts of people support the game? Is turning up to watch and support England now akin to a Donald Trump Rally?

The only way to stop this is to punish the English whenever their uncontrolled racism raises it's ugly head. If that means kicking them out of the Six Nations for a year or docking them points..so be it.

You have to nip this behaviour in the bud early.

The Welshman who went up a hill and tried to make it into a mountain.

Yes, Marler was wrong and will be punished, as an individual.

This post is rampant overreaction and, IMHO, extremely racist against English people (as are most of Welshy08's posts).

I know many of you will have heard of seagull management - a boss who flies in, flaps, makes a lot of noise, dumps :censored: and flies out again. Now who does that remind me of

[h's dad]

If you're condoning this then you'd have to conclude you condone apartheid era South Africa and the derogatory use of "black boy". I mean... they were black I suppose so it was a statement of fact.

Iain, that's drivel. Surely you know that?

Is it? In what way is it different?

One is a bit of harmless on pitch sledging between grown ups that is part of the game and the other is an oppressive political system of segregation and discrimination.
I can't help thinking that those who are so upset over this are those who also get upset over the use of the word blackboard. This incident is closer to that than it is to apartheid.

[Soggypitch]

I have to say I agree with h's Dad and Donny on this. Politically correct massive over reaction. He apologised - move on.

[tigercaspian]

Does anyone actually know if Mr Lee comes from a gypsy family? Haven't seen this anywhere from anyone?

I absolutely do not see any comparison between the gypsy community and other disadvantaged or minority groups: certainly no comparison with apartheid!

I well recall the devastation served by the gypsy community on Napton on the Hill in the late 90s, on the old railway line at Gt Oxendon about 3 years later and the complete destruction of a static camp near Wing, Leighton Buzzard about 4 years ago - that cost Aylesbury council £500,000. Not to mention the regular police raids over the years at the static camp at Harborough (opposite the rugby club!)......they get no sympathy from me as wherever they move in the only seem to leave damage, thieving, filth, and a massive clean-up bill.

[L Smith]

Are Gysies defined as a race.
Yes.
Did Marler used racist language.
Yes.
"Whataboutery" and "Obfuscation" is one thing, but it is cut and dried.

Now..with the very recent and homophobic and racial abuse of Nigel Owens, at Twickenham still fresh in the mind.. and now this deplorable abuse of the travelling Gypsy community, you seriously have to wonder what exactly is English Rugby all about?

What sort of people play English rugby and what sorts of people support the game? Is turning up to watch and support England now akin to a Donald Trump Rally?

The only way to stop this is to punish the English whenever their uncontrolled racism raises it's ugly head. If that means kicking them out of the Six Nations for a year or docking them points..so be it.

You have to nip this behaviour in the bud early.

The only way to stop any problem is to punish the English! You really are letting down your country by behaving this way.
I will of course offer a full and unmitigated apology if you produce any evidence to having supported Travellers' rights prior to Saturday
Edit: please don't tell me you are Shay Clipson!
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35807952

[Donny]

Maybe the logical thing to do is to reconfigure the referee's mic so he's constantly in contact with his assistants and the TMO but, if he wants the mic to be 'live' to all, he has to physically throw a switch to make it so. A lot of the time you cannot hear what he's saying due to the commentators/pundits talking over him whilst he's trying to explain the situation or they're apologising for the 'fruity language' which I don't hear the vast majority of the time.

For the third and final time, I will say I do not condone what Marler did but I can understand it happening in the heat of the moment. Rugby players are not angels after all.

[Tigerbeat]

The referees mike is constantly open to the other officials. The live sound sent out on the TV is controlled by the sound engineers....

[Tiger_in_Birmingham]

Does anyone actually know if Mr Lee comes from a gypsy family? Haven't seen this anywhere from anyone?

He does - he's been fairly open about it