Job Marler racially abusing a Welsh player? No Sanction

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welshy08
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Re: Job Marler racially abusing a Welsh player? No Sanction

Post by welshy08 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:24 am

Well glad it is finally over. I unlike many here...am of the opinion that there is no place for racist abuse on a rugby pitch or homophobic and racist abuse in the stands.

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Re: Job Marler racially abusing a Welsh player? No Sanction

Post by Tyzot » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:01 am

This thread started with a disproportionate post.

I unlike some here think that this would have been a different story if the comments had been the other way round and not tinged with the taste of sour grapes. I believe we should target genuine rascist behaviour and not try to use rascism laws to justify other agendas as it weakens the good work carried out elsewhere.

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Re: Job Marler racially abusing a Welsh player? No Sanction

Post by Phil B » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:24 am

The other day I called a spade a spade. The spade knew he was a spade, but the fork alongside took exception to my remark. The spade said that in fact that he didn’t mind being called a spade, but the fork took no notice whatsoever of his views and sought the opinion of a higher authority. The higher authority decided that to call a spade a spade was indeed, a wholly objectionable state of affairs, and the person who called a spade a spade should be suspended and fined.
What can we learn from this? These are the rules:
1. We must never call a spade a spade.
2. If the spade does not mind being called a spade, we must ignore the spade’s opinion, as the spade’s opinion of his own self-worth is of no value.
3. What is more important, therefore is not what the spade thinks, but what other people think.
4. So, if what other people think about what we say is more important than our own view, then we should all refresh our own readings of George Orwell’s 1984, where,
5. The thought police will tell you what to think, and say, and if you don’t toe the line, well………
6. You know what to expect, don’t you? :smt039
I could agree with you...but then we'd both be wrong.

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Re: Job Marler racially abusing a Welsh player? No Sanction

Post by ellis9 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:20 am

It's a bit ironic you have the name Welshy. Can I call you Welshy or does that become a racist remark?

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Re: Job Marler racially abusing a Welsh player? No Sanction

Post by GS » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:03 am

Phil B wrote:The other day I called a spade a spade. The spade knew he was a spade, but the fork alongside took exception to my remark. The spade said that in fact that he didn’t mind being called a spade, but the fork took no notice whatsoever of his views and sought the opinion of a higher authority. The higher authority decided that to call a spade a spade was indeed, a wholly objectionable state of affairs, and the person who called a spade a spade should be suspended and fined.
What can we learn from this? These are the rules:
1. We must never call a spade a spade.
2. If the spade does not mind being called a spade, we must ignore the spade’s opinion, as the spade’s opinion of his own self-worth is of no value.
3. What is more important, therefore is not what the spade thinks, but what other people think.
4. So, if what other people think about what we say is more important than our own view, then we should all refresh our own readings of George Orwell’s 1984, where,
5. The thought police will tell you what to think, and say, and if you don’t toe the line, well………
6. You know what to expect, don’t you? :smt039
I was going to post something similar but this is spot on, well said Phil. You could even add the spade was proud of being a spade and made it no secret that he was a spade.
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Re: Job Marler racially abusing a Welsh player? No Sanction

Post by mol2 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:19 am

World rugby intervene over an offence they value at a 2 match ban?

Does it justify the intervention?

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Re: Job Marler racially abusing a Welsh player? No Sanction

Post by Tomvarndell » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:07 am

There will be a few Irish, Welsh and Scottish players feeling relieved things they have said to us nasty English haven't been picked up on a ref mic.

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Re: Job Marler racially abusing a Welsh player? No Sanction

Post by fleabane » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:13 am

A clear analysis of what went wrong, and why a sanction was correct, in the Telegraph.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/ ... een-a-mes/

Interesting to note that 75% of people who took the survey dismissed what Marler said as "banter". As the article makes clear, Marlers half time apology is unusual, and an indication that he knew that what he had said was wrong and against the rules.

He got what, in law, and under the rules of the game, he deserved.
Valhalla I am coming!

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Re: Job Marler racially abusing a Welsh player? No Sanction

Post by Sajerj » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:14 am

tigercaspian wrote:Sorry,Ellis, that's not the point. Most fines for racist remarks come in at a few hundred pounds , the max is probably £2000. So this is wholly and completely over the top to a point where, if Marler chooses to challenge the scale of the verdict, he is likely to win hands down , ie WRU have dug a big indefensible hole for themselves if he takes them on.
John Terry was fined 220,000 pounds.

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Re: Job Marler racially abusing a Welsh player? No Sanction

Post by Sajerj » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:18 am

jgriffin wrote: And what about Nigel Owens suggesting that two forwards might be having a cwtch? Rampant homophobia!!

Owens is an interesting one, as one of his most famous soundbites was his comment in the Harlequins vs Castres match towards a squiify line out throw when he said to the hooker 'I am straighter than that one'.

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Re: Job Marler racially abusing a Welsh player? No Sanction

Post by Roly » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:25 am

Sajerj wrote:
tigercaspian wrote:Sorry,Ellis, that's not the point. Most fines for racist remarks come in at a few hundred pounds , the max is probably £2000. So this is wholly and completely over the top to a point where, if Marler chooses to challenge the scale of the verdict, he is likely to win hands down , ie WRU have dug a big indefensible hole for themselves if he takes them on.
John Terry was fined 220,000 pounds.
Yes, but he earns that before NAAFI Break on a Monday morning - so its likely proportional.

If you take into consideration what Marler earnt during the 6N, £20 000 equates to roughly the France game + his winning bonus.

Personally, I think it's still too much. I can't help feeling that the real, deep down cause of all this was that Wales lost to England.

All you need then is a spoonful of sour grapes, a pinch of gutter press sensationalising, and a helping of pathetic do-gooders determined to get upset on everyone else's behalf, and before you know it you've got what many consider to be a fair sanction after a dis-proportional World Rugby witch hunt.

Marler may be wondering whether he ought to bubble anyone who's abused him in some way in a game and used his nationality as a vehicle for it.

I bet there are now several, probably hundreds of international players hoping to God nobody does just that.
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.

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Re: Job Marler racially abusing a Welsh player? No Sanction

Post by mol2 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:39 am

Equating the size of soccer and union fines is probably difficult given the size of soccer stars income.

I suspect the going into the opposition dressing room half way through a match to make an apology probably had a more significant and meaningful impact on Marler than receiving a ban and a fine. Quins will suffer the ban and no doubt someone or a whip round will cover the fine or at the very least the Inland Revenue will end up paying the 40% tax they would have received!

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Re: Job Marler racially abusing a Welsh player? No Sanction

Post by L Smith » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:41 am

Sajerj wrote:
tigercaspian wrote:Sorry,Ellis, that's not the point. Most fines for racist remarks come in at a few hundred pounds , the max is probably £2000. So this is wholly and completely over the top to a point where, if Marler chooses to challenge the scale of the verdict, he is likely to win hands down , ie WRU have dug a big indefensible hole for themselves if he takes them on.
John Terry was fined 220,000 pounds.
Wonder what that would be as a percentage of his salary. To boot, he also came up with an Edmund Blackadder "Great Boo's up" type defence, in a brazen and shameless way.
IMHO, the 2 offences are poles apart.
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Re: Job Marler racially abusing a Welsh player? No Sanction

Post by jonlin » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:55 am

Don't get mad, just get even. Mic all the English up when they run out again.

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Re: Job Marler racially abusing a Welsh player? No Sanction

Post by strawclearer » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:57 am

GS wrote:
Phil B wrote:The other day I called a spade a spade. The spade knew he was a spade, but the fork alongside took exception to my remark. The spade said that in fact that he didn’t mind being called a spade, but the fork took no notice whatsoever of his views and sought the opinion of a higher authority. The higher authority decided that to call a spade a spade was indeed, a wholly objectionable state of affairs, and the person who called a spade a spade should be suspended and fined.
What can we learn from this? These are the rules:
1. We must never call a spade a spade.
2. If the spade does not mind being called a spade, we must ignore the spade’s opinion, as the spade’s opinion of his own self-worth is of no value.
3. What is more important, therefore is not what the spade thinks, but what other people think.
4. So, if what other people think about what we say is more important than our own view, then we should all refresh our own readings of George Orwell’s 1984, where,
5. The thought police will tell you what to think, and say, and if you don’t toe the line, well………
6. You know what to expect, don’t you? :smt039
I was going to post something similar but this is spot on, well said Phil. You could even add the spade was proud of being a spade and made it no secret that he was a spade.
The problem with your analogy, Phil, is that Marler didn't call a spade a spade. Had he done so, he would have referred to Lee as a 'Romany boy' or a 'Traveller boy' - neither of which being any worse than if Lee had called Marler an 'English boy'.

The problem is that he used the word 'Gypsy' - which is seen by the Romany / Traveller community (and others) as a racial slur.

Now, many people (including myself) put the whole affair into context and consider it to be 'banter' between two testosterone-fuelled opponents on a rugby field. Put it into a different context and it might rightly be judged as racist and worthy of formal censure. In the context in which it was actually said, it was simply Marler's way of putting Lee off his game - nothing more.

By way of example, I played cricket to a reasonable amateur level. A certain amount of (mostly) good humoured 'banter' took place. I walked out to bat one day, took my guard and the wicket-keeper decided to 'put me off my stroke'. We knew each other well and he remembered I was illegitimate. As he crouched inches away from me, he spoke quietly...

"You know your Mum and Dad weren't married?"

"Yes?"

"If they had have been - would they still have been brother and sister?"

I laughed; he laughed; we played cricket. Fortunately, there were no other :censored: (that shouldn't be censored - it's a perfectly legitimate word for an illegitimate person and I'll complain about my human rights being abused if you do!) around to take it out of context!
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