Mike Brown.

[Bowden Tiger]

Just seen the news that Mike Brown is not to be cited for the 'gardening incident' on Saturday. Surely this was dangerous and reckless, and could have resulted in serious injury.
Even though there may not have been an intent to injure, he was stupid, and we have had players suspended for less, Niki Goneva last season for example.

[tigerburnie]

There are those amongst us who might prefer a return to rucking, then you wouldn't get the deliberate and insidious lying on the wrong side. Not a fan of Browns, but he has been cleared to play, so nothing to see here.

[murphy15]

Absolutely nothing in it whatsoever. I would love to see rucking return. I played through the years when it was legal - apparently it's dangerous, but I've never seen anyone badly injured from it.

[tigerburnie]

Lifting in the lineout and full backs jumping up to catch a ball with their foot or knee extended in front of them is a lot more dangerous.

[Bowden Tiger]

I disagree, in that old fashioned rucking with no care taken for the idiot laying on the floor has long gone, along with 'forced into touch'.
It was dangerous as it was close to the head, and if it had been a Tigers playing on the floor this forum would be demanding the guillotine!

[Alatoruk]

Apparently he asked the ref if he was legal to kick the ball and was told 'yes'. I Have no verifiable source for this but if true it's difficult to cite someone if the ref didn't say 'be careful of heads though'.

[Bowden Tiger]

The citing officer did look at it apparently, that is why it was on the BBC this morning.

[Isambard]

Interesting argument between K Wood and J Guscott on Rugby Special.

I think it should have been a penalty against Ireland for holding on

[Tiger_in_Birmingham]

I think it should have been a penalty against Ireland for holding on

Seconded, although I could understand Poite giving the penalty against Care - I thought Care was being held in by an England player legally trying to rip the ball.

As for Murray - if you don't want to risk a boot near your face don't hold on to the ball with it next to your face! Push it down to your gut, out from your body (assuming adequate support), or go onto your knees and push back between your legs and buy a couple of extra seconds before you get turned over

Just seen the news that Mike Brown is not to be cited for the 'gardening incident' on Saturday. Surely this was dangerous and reckless, and could have resulted in serious injury.

A lot less reckless than collapsing a maul or a scrum - only 1 player at risk of a broken nose/eye socket rather than several players at risk of more serious neck injuries

It was dangerous as it was close to the head, and if it had been a Tigers playing on the floor this forum would be demanding the guillotine!

Or we'd be calling him a prat for holding the ball next to his head

[Bowden Tiger]

TiB, I agree that what you have said about collapsing a scrum etc, but I am talking about the head and how CM did have attention for a cut. Yes I agree that he should have pushed it away, but he couldn't move his head, as he was trapped|
However, it looks like I am wrong, and it isn't reckless and dangerous to ruck a ball that is close to someone's head!

[jgriffin]

It used to be 'on the floor, out of the game' and if you did anything as Murray did, you were open to be used as a piece of pitch or even worse, clogged and then penalised for playing the ball while on the deck.
I thought it could be a penalty to England!

[Tiger_in_Birmingham]

TiB, I agree that what you have said about collapsing a scrum etc, but I am talking about the head and how CM did have attention for a cut. Yes I agree that he should have pushed it away, but he couldn't move his head, as he was trapped|
However, it looks like I am wrong, and it isn't reckless and dangerous to ruck a ball that is close to someone's head!

If you can't move your head then move the ball away or accept being turned over

[Bowden Tiger]

My OP was whether or not it was dangerous use of the boot, and I wasn't arguing where the ball was.
Historically, if you were on the floor, and not rolling away, then you left yourself open for being rucked out or trampled, but never about the head!

[teds]

For me it merited a red card and a significant ban.
Might be worth actually watching it before you defend Brown's actions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgGvvogUaLA

[4071]

TiB, I agree that what you have said about collapsing a scrum etc, but I am talking about the head and how CM did have attention for a cut. Yes I agree that he should have pushed it away, but he couldn't move his head, as he was trapped|
However, it looks like I am wrong, and it isn't reckless and dangerous to ruck a ball that is close to someone's head!

It wasn't rucking, and initially it wasn't that close to Murray's head. Brown placed his foot and had a kick at the ball. Murray saw that he was in danger of losing possession, so pulled the ball closer to him. He put himself at risk - knowingly - and got an accidental bang to the head.

Nothing to see, really.


The ball in the ground is there to be played, and Brown was doing nothing wrong. At worst he could be said to be reckless, but when the guy on the ground is deliberately putting himself in harm's way it's hard to be particularly sympathetic.