Mid table mediocrity

[darganj]

After Friday's loss, top 4 is going to be very very difficult and we are now looking like a mid table mediocrity side.

The players who need to be exited are:

Seremaia Bai - past it
Fraser Balmain - not good enough for 2nd choice tight head, Muliola way better and use Pasquali in international periods
Gonzalo Camacho - past it
George Catchpole - not Prem quality
Jordan Crane - don't get me started
Sam Harrison - not good enough as a 2nd choice 9, Kitto far better
Christian Loamanu - told you all at the time he was a jack of all trades, master of none. The usual crowd called him the next Manu
Jack Roberts - not prem quality
Harry Thacker - way too small, not a hooker. And as a 7, it forces you to rely on two others to cover lineout and close quarter carrying. And he is too short to lift, ruins the lineout and set piece

With those 9 gone, buy 3 or 4 high quality players. The Prem this year has been dominated by high quality players who have decided matches - Nathan Hughes, Vunipolas, Piutau and this weekend.... Francois Hougaard. FH will single handedly guarantee Worcester's survival.

The 3 or 4 positions I would aim for are: Hooker, Number 8, Number 9 (Dan Robson esque player) and a Piutau esque player i.e. quality at 11,13,14 and 15.

[rcooper]

I agree with some of the players you have mentioned the truth is they are not good enough, but top 4 is still on the cards. When we are at full strength we are as good as any team it's just with the internationals away and a few injuries and players on the comeback having not played for a long time it is difficult.

[sapajo]

Its the age old issue of how far and how thin you spread the so called salary cap. Despite promises by Tigers that we spend upto the cap we do not seem to muster the quality in depth of the likes of Saracens, Bath and now Wasps. Furthermore, its a difficult judgement call on just how much you put all your eggs in one basket when it comes to splashing out big on individual players. Its great when they stay fit and are available to play but a nightmare for the team and our prosepcts when they are not.

[RagingBull]

tiz is off end of season I think.

Harsh on Catchpole considering he has been injured/Ill for a while.

When he last played (against Bath) he played well I thought and considering he will get academy credits what would be the point just yet?

Also doubt that releasing those players would allow us to get 4 Top class players let alone.

When you think Piteau is on a contract at Ulster for like 500,000 euros alone.

Bai won't exactly be a high earner
Camacho will be cheap
Balmain will have 30k covered by academy credit most likely.
Catchpole as above
Harrison not an that much either a decent amount but not huge will be cheaper than what Wasps are giving Robson most likely.
Crane again can't see him being on a huge amount Fonua would prob free up more cap.
Roberts a championship pick up again won't be on much
Thacker same as Balmain and Catchpole
Loamanu might well be on a decent contract (don't think anyone called him the next Manu but that he should of filled that Manu spot @ 13 instead he joined Manu on the injury table).

I think your delusional if you think we could get a top class TH, 8, a Robson type 9 and a Piutau type player by just releasing the players you mentioned.

JPP will take Goneva's wage
Toomua our second marquee player
McGuigan for Leo should free up some cap.

Hughes was hardly a top class signing at the time as well.

[trendylfj]

Every club has a number of players that they are trying to bring through and sometimes they get it right and sometimes they get it wrong.

Players who I would release would be
Bai
Camancho
Goneva
Loamanu

Players I would consider releasing would be
Crane or Fonua
and 2 or 3 of the following
Thacker
Roberts or Catchpole
Pasquali or Sio

I know that Bell and Ghiraldini are off so we would certainly need 3 or 4 new backs and some more cover in the front row if what I am saying actually happened - who??? not got a clue

[4071]

Balmain will have 30k covered by academy credit most likely.

Nope. When he came here from Newcastle he was already over 18, so is not eligible for the Home Grown Player credit.


EDIT: Note that the credit is now for 'Home Grown' players, rather than 'Academy' players, so the age limit has been removed. This places the likes of Ben Youngs, Tom Croft, Matt Smith, etc. back in that category, when previously they had been too old to qualify for the Academy Credits.

[RagingBull]

Balmain will have 30k covered by academy credit most likely.

Nope. When he came here from Newcastle he was already over 18, so is not eligible for the Home Grown Player credit.


EDIT: Note that the credit is now for 'Home Grown' players, rather than 'Academy' players, so the age limit has been removed. This places the likes of Ben Youngs, Tom Croft, Matt Smith, etc. back in that category, when previously they had been too old to qualify for the Academy Credits.

Forgot he joined after 18.

Point still stands though, those 9 players would not add up to 4/3 top class players IMO.

[jgriffin]

Well, midtable mediocrity has to include every one within one games points of us, which is everyone except the bottom 4 and Saracens. I think you are seeing the usual ebb-and-flow, with extra spice added due to no LV respite. My personal take on this is that our slump is nothing to do with the backs mentioned and everything to do with speed of ball/slowing down opposition/causing mayhem at the breakdown. Our best side has at least 5 jackals/disrupters (BOC, Fitz, Cole, Lochy, M Williams)and this creates the conditions for the backs to do their job either in broken field attack or in defensive organisation . Recently we have had ONE of them on the park at best. Our second choice half-backs are off the boil as well, so the engine of attack and defence is lacking. Speculating about which backs to discard is pointless IMO and not relevant - I'm hoping we have them all back and fit for Stade - that's the one I want to see us win, and Racing in the semi!!!! We will make top 6 but I can see us not making top 4 unless Wasps accumulate too many critical player injuries.

[The Boy Dave]

tiz is off end of season I think.

Where?
I wondered why we have not seen much of him, I thought he looked a good prop last year when we saw a little of him, good ball carrier and srummaged alright at TH for a young bloke, reminded me of Julian a little!

[Roly]

After Friday's loss, top 4 is going to be very very difficult and we are now looking like a mid table mediocrity side.

The players who need to be exited are:

Seremaia Bai - past it
Fraser Balmain - not good enough for 2nd choice tight head, Muliola way better and use Pasquali in international periods
Gonzalo Camacho - past it
George Catchpole - not Prem quality
Jordan Crane - don't get me started
Sam Harrison - not good enough as a 2nd choice 9, Kitto far better
Christian Loamanu - told you all at the time he was a jack of all trades, master of none. The usual crowd called him the next Manu
Jack Roberts - not prem quality
Harry Thacker - way too small, not a hooker. And as a 7, it forces you to rely on two others to cover lineout and close quarter carrying. And he is too short to lift, ruins the lineout and set piece

With those 9 gone, buy 3 or 4 high quality players. The Prem this year has been dominated by high quality players who have decided matches - Nathan Hughes, Vunipolas, Piutau and this weekend.... Francois Hougaard. FH will single handedly guarantee Worcester's survival.

The 3 or 4 positions I would aim for are: Hooker, Number 8, Number 9 (Dan Robson esque player) and a Piutau esque player i.e. quality at 11,13,14 and 15.

You mean like Waldrom and Salvi?

[Roly]

I agree with some of the players you have mentioned the truth is they are not good enough, but top 4 is still on the cards. When we are at full strength we are as good as any team it's just with the internationals away and a few injuries and players on the comeback having not played for a long time it is difficult.

If I had a quid for every time I'd heard this hackneyed cliché trotted out, I'd have enough to hire a decent pack.

[L Smith]

I agree with some of the players you have mentioned the truth is they are not good enough, but top 4 is still on the cards. When we are at full strength we are as good as any team it's just with the internationals away and a few injuries and players on the comeback having not played for a long time it is difficult.

If I had a quid for every time I'd heard this hackneyed cliché trotted out, I'd have enough to hire a decent pack.

And if we had a quid for every pointlessly disparaging post from you, we'd have £522

[fortysix]

Doom Clappers, Happy Mongers !!

We have at least 14 players who are either not up to Top 2 standard-and another handful who are leaving

All agree I think

Let us all hope that AM and RC can buy some replacements to improve massively---------- like OConnor Mc lachlan Williams Toomau Betham and Veainu

Otherwise it will be another 2 years of might haves and never wases..

[RagingBull]

If I was to make a list of players I would put question marks over it would be:

Props: Brugnara, Tiz, Balmain, Rizzo (age and injury questions marks), Aguero (same as Rizzo).
Hookers: Bateman
Locks: honesty I think we are fine in this department
Back Row: Fonua, Crane, Pearce (I like Pearce but a guy that big should not lose the ball as often as he does he is very very Raw),
Scrum Half: Harrison has not found his form last season, but I'm not too worried think Kitto looks good.
Fly Half: Burns hope with time he might find his Glous form from 3 years ago
Centers: Bai (retiring anyway), JDV (a shame he was very good at organizing but at his age and his injuries must be thinking of retiring soon), Roberts (looked great in LV cup and has a lot of direct speed but would he be better off at a club like Wuss or back in Wales)
Back 3: Loamanu (injuries never allowed us to see him play last season and isn't in the coaches plans it seems), Camacho (Hopefully can find his Argentina form as I like him but is off pace currently).

Currently have
Toomua for prob either JDV or Bai
JPP for Goneva

I know of a couple of players we are speaking to that look interesting.

I know that Mauger is having another clear out end of season by sounds of it.

[WirralExile]

As I understand it, Bai is off at the end of the season. He planned to do 2 years here, fill a piggy bank and then head to Fiji to buy/run a farm.