Quins

[RagingBull]

@RB If you can't see it by now it's pointless me trying to explain.

Please enlighten me.

The Journymen in today's game please name them.

[sapajo]

As Bill would have said we must Keep the Faith

[Big Dai]

As Bill would have said we must Keep the Faith

At this point I would have argued with Bill, we would end by raising a glass, I do miss him.

[The Boy Dave]

I don't know how many on here have played rugby but I'm going to say one thing for the very last time.
You canno't put a 13 stone forward in a forward pack and expect it to function properly as a unit at the set piece scrum!
Start going backwards at the scrum and it affects everyone both mentally and physically.
Cockerill has a massive problem, and that is fitting in a super player around the park whilst keeping his set piece stable, it hasn't worked at 2 and it didn't work at 7 tonight.
I was scoffed at for suggesting his combined lack of height and weight would be a problem at openside but you only need look at the technique required to keep his head in the mix to see the flaws as a result.
Score enough points from running rugby and it's not an issue but on a wet night in the middle of winter where the set piece is everything then it's a massive problem!
Whilst O'Connor was on at 7 the scrum at least had some parity.
Huge mistake from Cockerill tonight IMO, when O'Connor had to go off Crane should've come on at 8, Pearce moved to 6 and Croft to 7.

[Doghashadhisday]

Our ball retention in the tackle was poor and that was the difference. Pearce was the worst of the lot.

[Big Dai]

I don't know how many on here have played rugby but I'm going to say one thing for the very last time.
You canno't put a 13 stone forward in a forward pack and expect it to function properly as a unit at the set piece scrum!
Start going backwards at the scrum and it affects everyone both mentally and physically.
Cockerill has a massive problem, and that is fitting in a super player around the park whilst keeping his set piece stable, it hasn't worked at 2 and it didn't work at 7 tonight.
I was scoffed at for suggesting his combined lack of height and weight would be a problem at openside but you only need look at the technique required to keep his head in the mix to see the flaws as a result.
Score enough points from running rugby and it's not an issue but on a wet night in the middle of winter where the set piece is everything then it's a massive problem!
Whilst O'Connor was on at 7 the scrum at least had some parity.
Huge mistake from Cockerill tonight IMO, when O'Connor had to go off Crane should've come on at 8, Pearce moved to 6 and Croft to 7.

Neil Back. You can't blame one man for the shortcomings of the eight. Get your front five tight. The engine room has no horsepower. Deano never pushed...............leave Jordan to clean the car.

[cowmadiddy]

I run a sports pub in Chelsea, so was the only person attempting to watch this match - people kept asking me for drinks - but I think from what I saw, 2 things are apparent - we are playing too fast in the backs, it almost worked but the handling can't be as good in poor conditions, so we probably should have played with a bit more depth.
Also, with around 20 phases in time added on we didn't look like scoring, it got to the point where we had simply run out of ideas and ended up passing the ball to someone so they could get tackled. I know it's at the end of a gruelling match, but this is where Tigers used to pull out a try.
Although at the same time, there's a lot of negativity on this board, we were away against quins, and like it or not whilst we've been off the ball, teams like quins, Sarries, Exeter and watch out for wasps have got so much better.
It's going to take a while to catch up, never mind beat these teams away at the minute - the future is bright, but it is for these other teams too.

[drc_007]

A few thoughts

I don't think Thacker was the issue at the scrum. Most of the power comes from the tight 5, that is where the problem is. Balmain used to be an effective scrummager but now his technique looks suspect, and when he tires he is vulnerable.

Why was Manu regularly helping out at the breakdown whilst players like Fitzgerald were standing among the backs? People sometimes criticised Louis Deacon, but one thing he did do was hit 20-30 breakdowns a match and secure Tigers ball.

Pearce is regularly described as raw, he has been with Tigers since summer of 2014 why has he not been polished into a more complete article?

All Tigers set-pieces are poor, scrum, restarts, line-outs. The attempt at a driving line out towards the end of the match was pitiful, do they practice? Body positions looked wrong and there seemed to be no communication between forwards.

As an ex-forward I'll let others comment on the backs.

[L Smith]

A few thoughts

I don't think Thacker was the issue at the scrum. Most of the power comes from the tight 5, that is where the problem is. Balmain used to be an effective scrummager but now his technique looks suspect, and when he tires he is vulnerable.

Why was Manu regularly helping out at the breakdown whilst players like Fitzgerald were standing among the backs? People sometimes criticised Louis Deacon, but one thing he did do was hit 20-30 breakdowns a match and secure Tigers ball.

Pearce is regularly described as raw, he has been with Tigers since summer of 2014 why has he not been polished into a more complete article?

All Tigers set-pieces are poor, scrum, restarts, line-outs. The attempt at a driving line out towards the end of the match was pitiful, do they practice? Body positions looked wrong and there seemed to be no communication between forwards.

As an ex-forward I'll let others comment on the backs.

Tbf, the lineout was pretty good in those conditions.

[drc_007]

A few thoughts

I don't think Thacker was the issue at the scrum. Most of the power comes from the tight 5, that is where the problem is. Balmain used to be an effective scrummager but now his technique looks suspect, and when he tires he is vulnerable.

Why was Manu regularly helping out at the breakdown whilst players like Fitzgerald were standing among the backs? People sometimes criticised Louis Deacon, but one thing he did do was hit 20-30 breakdowns a match and secure Tigers ball.

Pearce is regularly described as raw, he has been with Tigers since summer of 2014 why has he not been polished into a more complete article?

All Tigers set-pieces are poor, scrum, restarts, line-outs. The attempt at a driving line out towards the end of the match was pitiful, do they practice? Body positions looked wrong and there seemed to be no communication between forwards.

As an ex-forward I'll let others comment on the backs.

Tbf, the lineout was pretty good in those conditions.

Agreed taking the ball off the top was fine, but the effort to organise a driving line out at the end was not.

[fleabane]

The scrum problems do not revolve around Thacker, they are there whether he plays or not.

The question is what has happened to the conditioning or coaching? A pretty invincible unit is now no better than ordinary.

[RagingBull]

I hope Stankovich coming back as scrum coach is true.

[wellstiger]

Whether it is Coaching,(quote) Journeymen, conditions or tactics.
The weather conditions are the same for both teams.
There is a lot of bad body language around Tigers on the pitch, as though everyone is not sure of what they should be doing.
An awful lot of indecision and looking leaderless IMO.
Last penalty warded to Tigers about 97minute and we spent time considering whether to kick or go to corner -clock ticking?????
No grit on display...just ambling as though everything will just come to those who wait.
The teams we played WANTED IT MORE.
Pre season was heralded with a great re affirmation of where we were heading with a strong coaching set up, New stellar players, I and an awful lot of posters to message board now know where that heading is.... Very un Tigerish no gerrrrrrrr.

[LittleBigG]

I think that some people really need to get some sense of perspective. They are either commenting having only seen the scoreline, or were watching the game with their eyes closed.

Quin's try wasn't some masterful backs move; it was a turnover ball that was hacked on and, funnily enough, the really fast international winger - who didn't have to turn around - got there first. Other than that they didn't look like scoring at all.

Yesterdays performance was a million miles away from the manure that was served up at Kingston Park.

Are there still problems - of course! The breakdown was utterly shambolic with no protection for Sam at all, we don't appear to have a plan B for bad weather, and we keep giving away daft penalties from restarts.

The attacking stats for the game were firmly in Tigers favour, despite the vile conditions and being away from home.

Yes the weather is the same for both teams, but it is also a massive leveller. If it had been fine weather for the whole game I am confident we would have won (we played our best rugby in the 2nd half when the weather let up a bit).

[Jon]

its an odd place to be. At Sale, I was speaking to the chap behind me and we said that our table position was better than our performances showed. I think there are issues but, like everyone is saying, some are more fixable. The lack of fluidity I the backs hasn't been helped with the changes in the centres and back 3. I hope we start to see some fixed positions now to give some stability. Also with Manu and JdV playing their first game together, things can only get better.
The forwards, for me, we have issue at hooker with OTY and tight head. I think Kitch is off-form. I would have Kitto start next week also. With Mike Williams due back I think they'll get more cohesive. although that could be rose-tinted glasses!
On a side note, does anyone else think BT Sport generally just criticise Leicester and praise everyone else? My wife hates rugby and thought that.