Whats going wrong

[Latecomer]

Biggest problem I've seen in the last few weeks is not adapting to the ref. We got on the wrong side of Wiggy last week and GG last night and didn't listen or learn.

[wellstiger]

Thanks to all posters for your comments.
I don't think you can excuse squad strength as a factor for poor play, or the quality of "missing senior squad" members.
Sarries ( for one) drop academy squad players into their team and there is no loss of cohesion, everyone knows their job. Some thing everyone has taken from Tigers of old, and we have somehow forgotten or pushed aside.
Blaming GREG the Gardner for our inability to hold on to ball and not compete effectively at the breakdown is of no consequence.
No leadership on the field of play and no apparent plan "B" hardly seems
feasible. We need a Johno maybe JDV may be the answer in the short term.
Credit to Mr Cockrill, post match I think he was honest and said what we were all thinking and doing. TAKING A LONG HARD LOOK AT OURSELVES.
Still time to put it right. Wearing a Tiger shirt does not make you a Tiger.

[LittleBigG]

Biggest problem I've seen in the last few weeks is not adapting to the ref. We got on the wrong side of Wiggy last week and GG last night and didn't listen or learn.

I'll add to that:
> Utter inability to play on those damn plastic pitches.
> MASSIVE underestimate of the of the opposition both this week and last week. They always claim that they respect the opposition but this is blatantly not true; time and time again we have failed to bury opponents when we should have done (this is not to say that we should have annihilated Sale and Newcastle - they have both been playing pretty well recently). There will, however, be a completely different attitude towards the Quins game next week.

Of course... the last point to add:
Someone mentioned on another thread that if we do not book our ideas up we will have a cricket score against us when we play Quins... Would this be the same Quins that also lost to Newcastle at Kingston Park just two weeks ago?

Frankly I am going to put a lot of last night down to Newcastle actually having sorted the issues they were having at the start of the season; they look like they will get a couple of other scalps up there.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure that Deano said to them "if you are going to smash anyone this season, make sure it is Tigers" !!!

[sapajo]

Since the Saints game where we lost O'connor and Owen Williams we have gone backwards. Just shows how important they are to us

[LittleBigG]

Actually, scrub that.

I've decided that it's all a grand conspiracy to get Bath relegated. Quins lost to Newcastle and gave Worcester a point, we've just lost to Newcastle... this is to make up for the points that they themselves gave to London Irish three weeks ago...



...or it could be that we have a fantastic league this year where pretty much any team can beat any other? Gone are the halcyon days where a couple of teams would destroy everyone. May the best team win! (It's going to be Saracens *spit* )

[RagingBull]

Since the Saints game where we lost O'connor and Owen Williams we have gone backwards. Just shows how important they are to us

Would add the lost of Mike Williams, hits just haven't had the same impact since his injury him and Fitzgerald seemed to have competitions for most crunching hits.

Anyone else think Kitto was much quicker getting the ball out than Harrison and looked to attack the line more.

I'm a huge Harrison fan but he needs to be quicker, he doesn't have Youngs threat around the edges to hold to defenses so he needs to get it out quicker.

One play when Kitto came on summed it up for me the ball came shooting out the ruck Kitto instead of picking it up and taking contact most likely being isolated from forwards, did a diving pick up and pass (in one movement) straight to Burns giving the backs a chance of at least giving forwards time to get there.

Would start Kitto next week.
15) Tait/Veainu

[sapajo]

Since the Saints game where we lost O'connor and Owen Williams we have gone backwards. Just shows how important they are to us

Would add the lost of Mike Williams, hits just haven't had the same impact since his injury him and Fitzgerald seemed to have competitions for most crunching hits.

Anyone else think Kitto was much quicker getting the ball out than Harrison and looked to attack the line more.

I'm a huge Harrison fan but he needs to be quicker, he doesn't have Youngs threat around the edges to hold to defenses so he needs to get it out quicker.

One play when Kitto came on summed it up for me the ball came shooting out the ruck Kitto instead of picking it up and taking contact most likely being isolated from forwards, did a diving pick up and pass (in one movement) straight to Burns giving the backs a chance of at least giving forwards time to get there.

Would start Kitto next week.
15) Tait/Veainu

Agreed, we are missing Mike Williams and I thought Harrison was slow getting to and passing from the ruck. Kitto has a larger skill set but his service like Harrisons was laboured. For me it seems that the first receiver is going AWOL so they have to wait for that person to get into place to pass to?

[GS]

On the leadership front, we had one of the greatest captains ever in Johnno and when he didn't play it was often as if they'd only just met and their knowledge of the game was based on watching a 'how to' video before the game. That said I have seen him storm off the pitch in disgust at the end of a game where it appeared the team just couldn't be bothered.

Unfortunately the three candidates for the job are injured or playing for England. Mat Tait might be a nice guy but an inspirational leader he ain't.

[Noddy555]

What's going wrong is 1. The people who are substituting for those injured or on international duty are not performing. 2. Our basic rugby at the scrum and lineout especially is pathetic and predictable. 3. I have always said that Freddy Burns is not a class player, that's why I always push the case for Owen Williams or Tommy Bell. Burns has become too predictable and often makes the wrong decision re kicking or passing. 4. Finally we have lovely movement across the back line but no penetration, bring on the day when we can pair a fully fit Manu and JDV as our centres.
I can't see us getting a result at the stoop next week against Harlequins unless their substitutes perform as bad as ours.
A 5 point win against the exiles at Welford road on 28/2/16 is a must.

[jgriffin]

Having slept on it and in a better mood, we are what we thought we would be, trying to develop our play but being woefully inconsistent.
Some observations:
12 Smith 13 Betham = our best combination, frees Betham up to wreak havoc, and Smithy still has the gas to go for the gaps if they open up. Tait doesn't do the 13 job IMO. I'm not holding my breath over Manu/JDV.
Pearce is a prize asset and we are B.Fools to lose him.
M.Williams and BOC are essential to our success this season - the full back row with Pearce and Croft to come on is lethal.
Our linch-pins are YBY, OW and Ed.
Veainu has NOT been worked out, we are not creating dynamic partly-broken play for him to exploit (this is why Wales try to engineer it late in their game, to capitalise on) and for me this is the value of the Smith/Betham axis. In order for that to happen we have to be at least a huge nuisance upfront, which in the absence of the above mentioned backrowers, we aren't. Thompstone for me is a better balance in the back three than Goneva, and I'm divided on Tait/Bell. If Burns is 10 then it has to be Bell, simply for field kicks; Tait has a more seasoned head on him though and is a better reader of the game.
So - conclusion? Same as several others on this thread, we lack the strength in depth, partly players, partly too many forced changes. Cockers must be tearing his stubble out.

[Cagey Tiger]

Veainu has NOT been worked out

Maybe, but he is no longer the relatively unknown quantity that he was for the first few months of the season and is marked more closely, with the resultant reduction in his average effectiveness.

[scrum5]

Having slept on it and in a better mood, we are what we thought we would be, trying to develop our play but being woefully inconsistent.
Some observations:
12 Smith 13 Betham = our best combination, frees Betham up to wreak havoc, and Smithy still has the gas to go for the gaps if they open up. Tait doesn't do the 13 job IMO. I'm not holding my breath over Manu/JDV.
Pearce is a prize asset and we are B.Fools to lose him.
M.Williams and BOC are essential to our success this season - the full back row with Pearce and Croft to come on is lethal.
Our linch-pins are YBY, OW and Ed.
Veainu has NOT been worked out, we are not creating dynamic partly-broken play for him to exploit (this is why Wales try to engineer it late in their game, to capitalise on) and for me this is the value of the Smith/Betham axis. In order for that to happen we have to be at least a huge nuisance upfront, which in the absence of the above mentioned backrowers, we aren't. Thompstone for me is a better balance in the back three than Goneva, and I'm divided on Tait/Bell. If Burns is 10 then it has to be Bell, simply for field kicks; Tait has a more seasoned head on him though and is a better reader of the game.
So - conclusion? Same as several others on this thread, we lack the strength in depth, partly players, partly too many forced changes. Cockers must be tearing his stubble out.

Couldn't agree more!

[TigerCam]

The lack of strength in depth is, IMO, a major problem. Forced changes due to injury etc do make an impact but Newcastle have had and still do have many injured players, yet still come up with a performance to out do the Tigers. You could add that adjusting to the playing surface might make a difference but I would not offer that up as a reason for such a poor performance. They (NF) were given an easy ride by the Tigers in that the Tigers did not do the basics i.e. make the tackles. Sarries and Exeter can front up with a 'second choice XV' so should the Tigers. If you are going to use the talents of the backs like Veainu et al, you must have a set piece and a back row that can deliver on impact and provide the space for the backs to run otherwise you are not going out wide and around corners. For many a season, not having players due to international call up was an excuse for poor performances. This excuse cannot be used this time around. Tigers should have a squad that can provide continuity; unfortunately they don't as demonstrated last week and last night. London Irish must be fancying their chances given their home performance against the Tigers?

[The Boy Dave]

The lack of strength in depth is, IMO, a major problem

I agree and the expectations are far too high of many.
They seem to become names before they have even proven themselves nowadays.
I also think the gulf between age grade international/A league/Premiership is a very large one, several need to do the business in the A league IMO before they are mentioned as worthy of playing 1st team rugby.
Several young players appear to be untouchable which is a very bad thing IMO.
The mauling set up in attack and defence was frustrating for me to watch, it was so predictable due to certain weaknesses needing to be covered and to assume that opposition analysts don't see it and know what is coming is unthinkable.
Personally I am starting to wonder what the reasoning is in certain areas, if Pearce is allowed to leave and others are retained I will not be happy!

[drc_007]

Having slept on it and in a better mood, we are what we thought we would be, trying to develop our play but being woefully inconsistent.
Some observations:
12 Smith 13 Betham = our best combination, frees Betham up to wreak havoc, and Smithy still has the gas to go for the gaps if they open up. Tait doesn't do the 13 job IMO. I'm not holding my breath over Manu/JDV.
Pearce is a prize asset and we are B.Fools to lose him.
M.Williams and BOC are essential to our success this season - the full back row with Pearce and Croft to come on is lethal.
Our linch-pins are YBY, OW and Ed.
Veainu has NOT been worked out, we are not creating dynamic partly-broken play for him to exploit (this is why Wales try to engineer it late in their game, to capitalise on) and for me this is the value of the Smith/Betham axis. In order for that to happen we have to be at least a huge nuisance upfront, which in the absence of the above mentioned backrowers, we aren't. Thompstone for me is a better balance in the back three than Goneva, and I'm divided on Tait/Bell. If Burns is 10 then it has to be Bell, simply for field kicks; Tait has a more seasoned head on him though and is a better reader of the game.
So - conclusion? Same as several others on this thread, we lack the strength in depth, partly players, partly too many forced changes. Cockers must be tearing his stubble out.

True but this does not address missing 23 tackles!
An optimal back row might help with conceding 14 turnovers and only making 6 turnovers but to be honest Tigers were being driven off the ball very easily.