Captain Hartley

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Soggypitch
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Re: Captain Hartley

Post by Soggypitch » Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:04 pm

I don't agree with this decision and I rate OTY as an all round better player.

However I will be supporting England (and by implication Dylan) as usual; as always EJ will be judged on his results.

To say Hartley should have received a life ban is a complete joke, likewise I'm not concerned about the role model scenario - it's about time England started selecting their best players regardless of past indiscretions etc..
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Jeremy Anderson
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Re: Captain Hartley

Post by Jeremy Anderson » Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:39 pm

Wrong choice IMO. Dylan is beyond changing at this stage of his career. He is a powder key waiting to go off and do something stupid at a critical time.
He has been significantly been helped by not playing much this season and so has avoided recent misdemeanours. You can be a hard player like Johnno or O'Connell without being dirty and underhand.
As a short term change of regime captain I can just about buy it but as a long term England captain he is a poor choice particularly as a role model.
A poor start for EJ
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Cagey Tiger
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Re: Captain Hartley

Post by Cagey Tiger » Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:44 pm

Soggypitch wrote:I don't agree with this decision and I rate OTY as an all round better player.

However I will be supporting England (and by implication Dylan) as usual; as always EJ will be judged on his results.

To say Hartley should have received a life ban is a complete joke, likewise I'm not concerned about the role model scenario - it's about time England started selecting their best players regardless of past indiscretions etc..
No it isn't.

Soggypitch
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Re: Captain Hartley

Post by Soggypitch » Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:13 pm

I presume you do not agree with Noddy's (who else) ridiculous suggestion of a lifetime ban for DH Cagey?!

Therefore I assume you don't think England should select "bad role models"?

That's a fair enough opinion but where do you draw the line? Surely on that principle Manu should not be selected after jumping off a ferry, assaulting two police officers etc. Likewise Cips for drink driving and for being an all round pain in the a**e when previously in camp with England - going right back to Johnos era. Likewise Danny Care for drink driving and I'm sure there are a number of others.

Personally I would select on merit and not worry about the perceived role model scenario, because the decision about what constitutes a good and bad role model is very subjective and not relevant to rugby selection.
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G.K
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Re: Captain Hartley

Post by G.K » Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:34 pm

Dullan is a liability and the week after next it could well be a case of:

Tae send him homewards tae think again (again)
Nowadays referees decide matches, players by how much.

Stu_F
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Re: Captain Hartley

Post by Stu_F » Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:54 pm

G.K wrote:Dullan is a liability and the week after next it could well be a case of:

Tae send him homewards tae think again (again)
Let's hope :smt002

Bill W (2)
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Re: Captain Hartley

Post by Bill W (2) » Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:34 pm

Stu_F wrote:
G.K wrote:Dullan is a liability and the week after next it could well be a case of:

Tae send him homewards tae think again (again)
Let's hope :smt002
Will EJ be capable of admitting such a big mistake so early in his tenure?

Or is it a stroke of genious?
Still keeping the faith!

The Boy Dave
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Re: Captain Hartley

Post by The Boy Dave » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:12 pm

Will EJ be capable of admitting such a big mistake so early in his tenure?

Or is it a stroke of genious?
That is the big question and only time will tell!

My gut feeling is that EJ has selected a disposable skipper.
Many very good potential international hookers around at present, not something that can be said of most other positions.
On the other hand it could go well and we are stuck with Hartley, not something that is sits comfortably with all!
It doesn't matter how dirty others have been in the past as times have changed, rugby is in the spotlight more and more these days and what players or Captain's did in the past is now irrelevant.
If EJ is looking for a harder in the face leader to push the boundries then that's fine but I am not sure if DH can control himself to the level required of a Captain and be the same player?
It's a big gamble but not if you get the drift!
Cheery chappy

Jimmy Skitz
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Re: Captain Hartley

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:27 pm

he will no doubt get himself banned again and when this happened hopefully Tom Youngs will Laugh at Eddie Jones for an hour down the phone before telling him he made his bed now sleep in it

Jeremy Anderson
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Re: Captain Hartley

Post by Jeremy Anderson » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:32 pm

Jimmy Skitz wrote:he will no doubt get himself banned again and when this happened hopefully Tom Youngs will Laugh at Eddie Jones for an hour down the phone before telling him he made his bed now sleep in it
Mind you Tom increased his own card count last weekend in an effort to be considered by EJ
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Jimmy Skitz
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Re: Captain Hartley

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:34 pm

Jeremy Anderson wrote:
Jimmy Skitz wrote:he will no doubt get himself banned again and when this happened hopefully Tom Youngs will Laugh at Eddie Jones for an hour down the phone before telling him he made his bed now sleep in it
Mind you Tom increased his own card count last weekend in an effort to be considered by EJ
I actually missed most of the match due to my own stupidity, what was he sin binned for?

Jeremy Anderson
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Re: Captain Hartley

Post by Jeremy Anderson » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:47 pm

Jimmy Skitz wrote:
Jeremy Anderson wrote:
Jimmy Skitz wrote:he will no doubt get himself banned again and when this happened hopefully Tom Youngs will Laugh at Eddie Jones for an hour down the phone before telling him he made his bed now sleep in it
Mind you Tom increased his own card count last weekend in an effort to be considered by EJ
I actually missed most of the match due to my own stupidity, what was he sin binned for?
He cleared out leading a bit with his shoulder and followed up with a couple of soft punches that may or may not have connected - many suspect in retaliation to the gouging going on from Stade which the ref and TMO were ignoring.
Jez

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rocktop51
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Re: Captain Hartley

Post by rocktop51 » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:49 pm

The Boy Dave wrote:
Will EJ be capable of admitting such a big mistake so early in his tenure?

Or is it a stroke of genious?
That is the big question and only time will tell!

My gut feeling is that EJ has selected a disposable skipper.
Many very good potential international hookers around at present, not something that can be said of most other positions.
On the other hand it could go well and we are stuck with Hartley, not something that is sits comfortably with all!
It doesn't matter how dirty others have been in the past as times have changed, rugby is in the spotlight more and more these days and what players or Captain's did in the past is now irrelevant.
If EJ is looking for a harder in the face leader to push the boundries then that's fine but I am not sure if DH can control himself to the level required of a Captain and be the same player?
It's a big gamble but not if you get the drift!
Disposable indeed - he'll be too old for the next RWC and will have been overtaken in the pecking order.
Hambo :- He was with England when he was injured, but he was a Tigers player, our player. He is still our player.”

The Boy Dave
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Re: Captain Hartley

Post by The Boy Dave » Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:55 pm

Disposable indeed - he'll be too old for the next RWC and will have been overtaken in the pecking order.
Politics at it's finest!
is it a stroke of genious?
Cheery chappy

G.K
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Re: Captain Hartley

Post by G.K » Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:51 pm

Politics it is alright - EJ's making sure we remain a second rate Rugby nation for the next 5 years. :smt009
Nowadays referees decide matches, players by how much.

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