England Squad - OTY Dropped !!!!!

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mol2
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Re: England Squad - OTY Dropped !!!!!

Post by mol2 » Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:42 pm

The Boy Dave wrote:
Hookers are picked for scrums and lineouts, everything else is a bonus.
True, so what would be your choice from Tigers v Saints at the weekend, and this season so far?
I was there, and my choice would be Tom Youngs!
I can't imagine where or how he came up with Hartley in and Youngs out at this stage.
It should be the other way around and Hartley should have it all to prove!
If Hartley was performing brilliantly then fair enough, but that isn't so and he isn't even first choice at his club and has not done much "hooking" this season, and for the record I didn't agree with his last ban so I have nothing against him for that.
Playing for Tigers is different - at loose head he has Ayerza who is a country mile ahead of Marler or any other English loose head apart from the injured Corbisiero (who looks like he won't play for England again)

Hartley seems to be one of those players who's scrummaging prowess has grown in his absence - I think someone has already described him as Pop-up which the press seem to have forgotten!
I suspect he too would have suffered at the world cup as England's conditioning program got it horribly wrong for the front row players. Making them more mobile at the expense of the bread and butter grunt work was horribly exposed. A bit too much rugby league influence or more a lack of understanding of what the consequences of neglecting the scrum can be.
There was a drastic drop off in scrum performance over the last year or even less than that. Was this driven by the back row's inability to secure possession let alone turn over the opposition's and the need for the likes of Cole and Youngs to try and make up for not having a proper 7. Australia played two 7s & we played two 6s and it was clear which was the better option!

This was compounded by playing Lawes in the second row who seemed injured and presumably couldn't provide the expected engine room grunt.

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Re: England Squad - OTY Dropped !!!!!

Post by jgriffin » Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:01 pm

Roly wrote:
jgriffin wrote:"mouth frothing CA"

Once again, Roly, can you explain? Not as quick as you.
CA.... the Crumbie Automata, the happy clappers.... you know, the sort that poo their knickers when Tom Youngs isn't selected for England by the new Head Coach and call for a campaign to oust him.

Note: CA normal habitat is the Crumbie, but regular match attendance not required to qualify.
I will be pleased to meet you on Saturday night just between the Clubhouse 22 and 10 and introduce you to many of the Crumbie supporters. I assume you don't actually either support the club or attend however. I also consider your insults to some of the best fans a club could have as noxious. Decorum and the mods prevent me from further assessing the continuous stream of negative and insulting posts you emit. You can disagree without being gratuitously rude. :smt005 :smt005 :smt005
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fortysix
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Re: England Squad - OTY Dropped !!!!!

Post by fortysix » Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:25 pm

Hartley being 34 when the next World Cup takes place surely means he wont be anywhere near the team then.

So why on earth is he in it now ??
George is a much better bet, as is OTY

Ditto Robshaw who as everyone apart from the London media knows-------- he is a club Jack of all trades and Master of none

Common sense would have been to identify 30/40 players who will be in the frame come 2019, circa aged 18-26 with one or two exceptions, maybe in the lock department...

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Re: England Squad - OTY Dropped !!!!!

Post by Stu_F » Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:44 pm

fortysix wrote:Ditto Robshaw who as everyone apart from the London media knows-------- he is a club Jack of all trades and Master of none.
But only the opinion of the London media counts for anything you fool! Where have you been for the whole of your life? North of Watford I'm guessing.

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Re: England Squad - OTY Dropped !!!!!

Post by Soggypitch » Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:47 pm

It's not just about building to the 2019 WC. The 6 Nations is incredibly important to all fans, as are the autumn internationals...in fact all internationals!!

It's been proven time and again that successful sides need a core of experienced players, not just very promising youngsters. Getting that mix right is part of the art of selection.

I think Jones has done well by and large with his picks (excepting the OTY omission) and I also like the sound of this;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... world.html

Get the players out of their comfort zone and see who has the ability and character to really kick on. We shall see, my bet is it won't be dull!!
Soggypitch

Isambard
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Re: England Squad - OTY Dropped !!!!!

Post by Isambard » Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:03 pm

He is only allowed to make so many changes. Dunno who imposed that on him bit there we are.

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Re: England Squad - OTY Dropped !!!!!

Post by L Smith » Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:10 pm

Isambard wrote:He is only allowed to make so many changes. Dunno who imposed that on him bit there we are.
Maybe it was the same stuffed shirts who are imposing Dullan on him and the same stuffed shirts who made Burgess reassurances.
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Re: England Squad - OTY Dropped !!!!!

Post by Sajerj » Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:40 pm

Logically one would assume the rule is their at the behest of the clubs, not the RFU.

The RFU presumably would prefer no restrictions, but the clubs could not plan if suddenly 33 players were rotated in and out of the EPS part of the way through a season.

Bill W (2)
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Re: England Squad - OTY Dropped !!!!!

Post by Bill W (2) » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:19 pm

Sajerj wrote:Logically one would assume the rule is their at the behest of the clubs, not the RFU.

The RFU presumably would prefer no restrictions, but the clubs could not plan if suddenly 33 players were rotated in and out of the EPS part of the way through a season.
The "Rule" is indeed part of the agreement between PRL and RFU whereby RFU providie funding to PRL in exchange for release of players.

When Hartley gets banned in advance of 6 nations what oare the odds of OTY getting injured?

:smt003
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Big Dai
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Re: England Squad - OTY Dropped !!!!!

Post by Big Dai » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:28 pm

Sorry Tom..............have bought a Welsh shirt in sympathy.
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Re: England Squad - OTY Dropped !!!!!

Post by Bill W (2) » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:39 pm

Big Dai wrote:Sorry Tom..............have bought a Welsh shirt in sympathy.
Turncoat!! :smt003

Or pandering to Mrs. Dai :smt017
Still keeping the faith!

Roly
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Re: England Squad - OTY Dropped !!!!!

Post by Roly » Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:20 am

jgriffin wrote:
Roly wrote:
jgriffin wrote:"mouth frothing CA"

Once again, Roly, can you explain? Not as quick as you.
CA.... the Crumbie Automata, the happy clappers.... you know, the sort that poo their knickers when Tom Youngs isn't selected for England by the new Head Coach and call for a campaign to oust him.

Note: CA normal habitat is the Crumbie, but regular match attendance not required to qualify.
I will be pleased to meet you on Saturday night just between the Clubhouse 22 and 10 and introduce you to many of the Crumbie supporters. I assume you don't actually either support the club or attend however. I also consider your insults to some of the best fans a club could have as noxious. Decorum and the mods prevent me from further assessing the continuous stream of negative and insulting posts you emit. You can disagree without being gratuitously rude. :smt005 :smt005 :smt005
Ah yes, that particular detachment of the CA have been malfunctioning for a few years now. It was traced to a batch of faulty memory chips that also forced the host units to claim Steve Borthwick was the perfect England Captain and that Martin Johnson was the Messiah.

:smt046
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Re: England Squad - OTY Dropped !!!!!

Post by Hinckley Bob » Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:40 am

darganj wrote: Hookers are picked for scrums and lineouts, everything else is a bonus.

Why then has OTY been told to work on his tackling and ball carrying (according to the Daily Telegraph)?
Apparently, Cockers was "gobsmacked" by the decision.

Roly
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Re: England Squad - OTY Dropped !!!!!

Post by Roly » Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:43 am

Hinckley Bob wrote:
darganj wrote: Hookers are picked for scrums and lineouts, everything else is a bonus.

Why then has OTY been told to work on his tackling and ball carrying (according to the Daily Telegraph)?
The perception is (true or otherwise), that whilst he is happy to make hard yards, he coughs the ball up in possession too much, and gets pinged too much.
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.

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Re: England Squad - OTY Dropped !!!!!

Post by Iain » Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:48 am

There may be something in the penalties thing, though again I'd love to see statistics for this.

The only thing to my mind that makes sense in this is that Jones likes his hookers to strike at the ball so his scrum can win good, clean, quick ball and the backs can be released quickly. For all his strengths, and there are many, that isn't one of them.

Even with that caveat I'd still have him in the squad every time, but I suspect that it's a matter of style rather than ability.

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