Tom Youngs

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leic
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Tom Youngs

Post by leic » Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:41 pm

So this week the talk is all about Hartley as Captain of England, but it slightly annoys me OTY is now a forgotten man of England. Not a mention of him in the press, but would you pick him for England?

RagingBull
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Re: Tom Youngs

Post by RagingBull » Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:49 pm

Lineout was brilliant throwing to the back regularly.

Not many players who play with his fearlessness.

Butchers Hook
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Re: Tom Youngs

Post by Butchers Hook » Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:52 pm

Yes.

Doghashadhisday
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Re: Tom Youngs

Post by Doghashadhisday » Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:55 pm

I think England should pick Hartley and George as the hookers. Let us keep Tom for our games

leic
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Re: Tom Youngs

Post by leic » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:00 am

Now I've just been on line and read the papers tomorrow, Cockers must have read my mind!

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Re: Tom Youngs

Post by Soggypitch » Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:56 am

leic wrote:Now I've just been on line and read the papers tomorrow, Cockers must have read my mind!
Yes and Cockers is quite right to back Tom Youngs so publicly. Again he is showing great loyalty to his players which we have come to expect.

Hopefully Eddie Jones took note last night!!
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ads
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Re: Tom Youngs

Post by ads » Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:07 am

Whilst I agree that OTY is great and well deserving of an place in the England team. From what I've seen on other social media and in the press, the general consensus around the country is that he can't/won't hook and still can't throw!!

So until the press start singing his virtues we might be stuck with him on international weekends. :smt003

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Re: Tom Youngs

Post by mol2 » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:46 am

England's front row problems stem from the lack of a loose head and trying to get their tight heads to be be ultra mobile to do the job the back row were utterly unable to do at the world cup.

Marler was hopelessly exposed when he was forced to scrum straight (is he another Paul James?) Macko Vunipola seems to have the edge in the scrum but losing Corbisiero has exposed England terribly over the past 2 or 3 years.

So rather than accept that the problem is with the loose head and over training the props OTY will get sacrificed for a jumbo hooker to make up for the loose head's lack of power.
Combine that by picking a half fit Lawes in the second row down powered the England scrum. Hopefully the future England locks like Otje might provide a bit more grunt in the engine room too.

In some ways I think Tom's best role for England is as an impact sub when his dynamic play in the loose will have the potential to create more mayhem than if he starts.

England should move on from Hartley. Jamie George looks the part and is young so why not develop him rather than stick with a hot head.

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Re: Tom Youngs

Post by 4071 » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:51 am

ads wrote:Whilst I agree that OTY is great and well deserving of an place in the England team. From what I've seen on other social media and in the press, the general consensus around the country is that he can't/won't hook and still can't throw!!
Once established, a 'FACT' about a player is very hard to overturn. It's certainly unaffected by contrary evidence.

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Re: Tom Youngs

Post by Noddy555 » Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:13 am

So the week when Hartley gets touted as the next England captain the best hooker in England namely Tom Youngs puts in a stellar performance against Munster. If Jones doesn't recognise that fact he's blind as well as stupid.

longlivethecrumbie
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Re: Tom Youngs

Post by longlivethecrumbie » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:32 pm

The one thing that amuses me about all of this talk about Hartley's lineout being far superior is that I recall him having an absolute mare of a game at Welford Road where he was subbed after about 45-50 minutes with his lineout having capitulated to such an extent that he'd have missed the barn door due to the pressure that we'd put him under that day.

4071
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Re: Tom Youngs

Post by 4071 » Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:28 pm

longlivethecrumbie wrote:The one thing that amuses me about all of this talk about Hartley's lineout being far superior is that I recall him having an absolute mare of a game at Welford Road where he was subbed after about 45-50 minutes with his lineout having capitulated to such an extent that he'd have missed the barn door due to the pressure that we'd put him under that day.
Despite that, Hartley's lineout work IS superior to Youngs. He's been exceptionally accurate for years now.

It's largely a case of whether you're happy possibly sacrificing a couple of lineouts in order to get the extra half-dozen tackles and carries that Youngs brings, adding a huge amount if dynamism and workrate outside the set-piece.

Jamie George appears to be the best of both worlds right now. It's weird that Lancaster insisted on believing that Rob Webber was the best understudy to Youngs in the WC. As it is, George is still a relatively unknown quantity at international level and should probably be considered back-up rather than starter going into the 6N.

Hartley still has a lot to offer, and I'd be happy to have him there in case one of Youngs or George breaks down. I feel very uncomfortable with only 2 EPS hookers.

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Re: Tom Youngs

Post by mol2 » Mon Dec 21, 2015 3:24 pm

Lancaster was also of the opinion that Robshaw is an international 7, Marler can scrummage,a recent rugby league convert to flanker was best used as a centre and Wigglesworth is an international scrum half! (Heavens above he wouldn't rate in the top 2 9s at Tigers)

I would conclude that many would not agree that the Lancaster era coaches would be considered sound selectors of players and as such how they view Hartley or any of their other selections has to be taken in that context.

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Re: Tom Youngs

Post by Hot_Charlie » Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:06 pm

Noddy555 wrote:So the week when Hartley gets touted as the next England captain the best hooker in England namely Tom Youngs puts in a stellar performance against Munster. If Jones doesn't recognise that fact he's blind as well as stupid.
Didn't we lose a line-out last night? A terrible performance in the set piece following last week! :smt003

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Re: Tom Youngs

Post by DickyP » Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:34 pm

4071 wrote:
ads wrote:Whilst I agree that OTY is great and well deserving of an place in the England team. From what I've seen on other social media and in the press, the general consensus around the country is that he can't/won't hook and still can't throw!!
Once established, a 'FACT' about a player is very hard to overturn. It's certainly unaffected by contrary evidence.
Especially the myth about throwing accuracy where TY is up there with the best - go look at the Opta stats.
For when the One Great Scorer comes to write against your name,
He marks - not that you won or lost - but how you played the Game."

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