Jean De Villiers - UPDATED - threads merged

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ourla
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Re: Jean De Villiers - UPDATED - threads merged

Post by ourla »

floridaboy wrote:
The Boy Dave wrote:Signed JDV and folk are talking about who is in line for next year, as if it's more important.
All speculation, usually started by the same rumour mongers who are usually wrong.
Expect a different level of defensive brain and attacking link play come the run in, he is a special player and will improve the chances of success greatly in my opinion.
Your opinion is spot on, so much garbage on this thread. True everyone is entitled to an opinion, but for goodness sake guys, this man is still a quality signing. If he is that bad, who would you play at 12 from our squad as it stands !
You are missing Roly's point. He is saying we have too many stop gaps. That if you want a team that performs consistently and over the long term it's not healthy to make these signings. He is not saying JDV is not quality or that we have a 12 who is as good as him on the books and as of today. As it happens I don't agree with Roly on this one. I thought Thorn was great for the squad last season and JDV can do a similar job. I think we have a better core squad and coaching team. I think JDV can just do a job within that. I wouldn't want to have many Thorn or JDVs for the Roly reasons. But I don't think we do.
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Re: Jean De Villiers - UPDATED - threads merged

Post by JackFlashJonny »

ourla wrote:
floridaboy wrote:
The Boy Dave wrote:Signed JDV and folk are talking about who is in line for next year, as if it's more important.
All speculation, usually started by the same rumour mongers who are usually wrong.
Expect a different level of defensive brain and attacking link play come the run in, he is a special player and will improve the chances of success greatly in my opinion.
Your opinion is spot on, so much garbage on this thread. True everyone is entitled to an opinion, but for goodness sake guys, this man is still a quality signing. If he is that bad, who would you play at 12 from our squad as it stands !
You are missing Roly's point. He is saying we have too many stop gaps. That if you want a team that performs consistently and over the long term it's not healthy to make these signings. He is not saying JDV is not quality or that we have a 12 who is as good as him on the books and as of today. As it happens I don't agree with Roly on this one. I thought Thorn was great for the squad last season and JDV can do a similar job. I think we have a better core squad and coaching team. I think JDV can just do a job within that. I wouldn't want to have many Thorn or JDVs for the Roly reasons. But I don't think we do.

All these points are very valid imo..JDV for this year is the best we could get and I am very excited to see him play..however we need a settled midfield and hopefully from next year our marquee centre can grow into a midfield with Manu going forward for years to come :smt023
The Boy Dave
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Re: Jean De Villiers - UPDATED - threads merged

Post by The Boy Dave »

JDV for this year is the best we could get and I am very excited to see him play..however we need a settled midfield and hopefully from next year our marquee centre can grow into a midfield with Manu going forward for years to come
There are plenty of settled sides finish lower than Leicester in the Premiership.
What matters is quality.
This bloke has 100+ caps for South Africa, it doesn't get any better.
12 is a pivitol defensive position and he is one of the very best.
Why does Hansen pick Nonu to start ahead of SBW at 12, defensive pivot!
Take Sarries as another example, they regularly chop and change players from 9 to 13, but they are of a certain quality, they are all very comfortable at club level, regardless of what happened with England Barritt is a defensive pivot for them in big matches and it works at that level.
I think it could be a great signing and very well timed IMO showing these coaches know exactly what they are doing.
Cheery chappy
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Re: Jean De Villiers - UPDATED - threads merged

Post by fleabane »

^+1 :smt023
Valhalla I am coming!
floridaboy
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Re: Jean De Villiers - UPDATED - threads merged

Post by floridaboy »

The Boy Dave wrote:
JDV for this year is the best we could get and I am very excited to see him play..however we need a settled midfield and hopefully from next year our marquee centre can grow into a midfield with Manu going forward for years to come
There are plenty of settled sides finish lower than Leicester in the Premiership.
What matters is quality.
This bloke has 100+ caps for South Africa, it doesn't get any better.
12 is a pivitol defensive position and he is one of the very best.
Why does Hansen pick Nonu to start ahead of SBW at 12, defensive pivot!
Take Sarries as another example, they regularly chop and change players from 9 to 13, but they are of a certain quality, they are all very comfortable at club level, regardless of what happened with England Barritt is a defensive pivot for them in big matches and it works at that level.
I think it could be a great signing and very well timed IMO showing these coaches know exactly what they are doing.
Hoorah, a kindred spirit :smt026
stanlycam1
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Re: Jean De Villiers - UPDATED - threads merged

Post by stanlycam1 »

The problem signing a 34 year old back is what happens if his legs go. Top class players in any sport can look foolish when it happens. So I hope its a short contract . Cockers view that"In recent seasons we've brought in players like Brad Thorn and Lote Tuqiri from successful environments in the southern hemisphere and they have made a significant contribution here. Tuqiri ? seriously
Johnnyg
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Re: Jean De Villiers - UPDATED - threads merged

Post by Johnnyg »

Tuqiri was brilliant for us I thought. We must have watched something different.
WhitecapTiger
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Re: Jean De Villiers - UPDATED - threads merged

Post by WhitecapTiger »

stanlycam1 wrote:The problem signing a 34 year old back is what happens if his legs go. Top class players in any sport can look foolish when it happens. So I hope its a short contract . Cockers view that"In recent seasons we've brought in players like Brad Thorn and Lote Tuqiri from successful environments in the southern hemisphere and they have made a significant contribution here. Tuqiri ? seriously
Tuqiri was great for us, the buzz around the club was, IMO, very noticeable whenever he was involved.

Maybe Cockers was talking about more than just the Matchday 80 mins that most of us actually see. The presence in training perhaps? Passing on experience, training techniques, skills, ideas? Younger players picking up tips and hints from these kind of players.

It may not (always) be the case but if they can bring the best out in our younger players then fair enough in my book.

If you read the articles around it appears that it's a 6 month / rest of season contract from Dec 1st.
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Flash
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Re: Jean De Villiers - UPDATED - threads merged

Post by Flash »

Let's face isn't exactly a bad "stop gap" for the 12 position and we've all seen how important Ant Allen was to us, hopefully JDV can fill his boots :smt023
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Re: Jean De Villiers - UPDATED - threads merged

Post by Sajerj »

I think he is a very good player and a very good short term signing.

However, in what has been a huge problem position for English rugby it shows the conflict of interest that exists between club and country.
JackFlashJonny
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Re: Jean De Villiers - UPDATED - threads merged

Post by JackFlashJonny »

The Boy Dave wrote:
JDV for this year is the best we could get and I am very excited to see him play..however we need a settled midfield and hopefully from next year our marquee centre can grow into a midfield with Manu going forward for years to come
There are plenty of settled sides finish lower than Leicester in the Premiership.
What matters is quality.
This bloke has 100+ caps for South Africa, it doesn't get any better.
12 is a pivitol defensive position and he is one of the very best.
Why does Hansen pick Nonu to start ahead of SBW at 12, defensive pivot!
Take Sarries as another example, they regularly chop and change players from 9 to 13, but they are of a certain quality, they are all very comfortable at club level, regardless of what happened with England Barritt is a defensive pivot for them in big matches and it works at that level.
I think it could be a great signing and very well timed IMO showing these coaches know exactly what they are doing.
Think you have missed the point TBD..we need a 12 that is going to be here long term your point highlights that completely Sarries have well drilled units that have been settled there for years and know their systems and play inside out..obviously clubs lower in the league are more settled but lack quality..

In essence I think we are almost in agreement you just have got the wrong end of the stick..I think JDV will be amazing but he will only be here until hopefully the prem final in May and we need a quality 12 who can grow with us..
Sajerj
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Re: Jean De Villiers - UPDATED - threads merged

Post by Sajerj »

WhitecapTiger wrote:
stanlycam1 wrote:The problem signing a 34 year old back is what happens if his legs go. Top class players in any sport can look foolish when it happens. So I hope its a short contract . Cockers view that"In recent seasons we've brought in players like Brad Thorn and Lote Tuqiri from successful environments in the southern hemisphere and they have made a significant contribution here. Tuqiri ? seriously
Tuqiri was great for us, the buzz around the club was, IMO, very noticeable whenever he was involved.

Maybe Cockers was talking about more than just the Matchday 80 mins that most of us actually see. The presence in training perhaps? Passing on experience, training techniques, skills, ideas? Younger players picking up tips and hints from these kind of players.

It may not (always) be the case but if they can bring the best out in our younger players then fair enough in my book.

If you read the articles around it appears that it's a 6 month / rest of season contract from Dec 1st.

The club has just signed an AB inside centre as head coach for three years to do this job. Pass on skills, technique and experience.

It is what it is. A short term signing for hopefully short term gain.
WhitecapTiger
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Re: Jean De Villiers - UPDATED - threads merged

Post by WhitecapTiger »

Sajerj wrote:The club has just signed an AB inside centre as head coach for three years to do this job. Pass on skills, technique and experience.

It is what it is. A short term signing for hopefully short term gain.
And so of course experience from others has no place at all........

I was referring to the 'significant contribution' that these players bring not being limited to match day time alone.

Of course it is "what it is", ultimately a stop gap until primary targets are available (as we're led to believe) but that doesn't mean that "what it is" has to be confined to a single dimension.
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Re: JDV

Post by 4071 »

kingol22 wrote:Is it short sighted? We have quite a few young players in his position, what better way for them to progress by training alongside one of the best and getting his insight into their game?
Well, there is one better way. By playing.


I'm in favour of this short-term signing as a stop-gap until the arrival of a long-term world-class signing. However, that doesn't stop me regretting that it is necessary to make these signings to cover a problem position.

We let a talented academy product go, and he went on to international honours and currently captains a Premiership rival. Since his departure, we've made a series of short-term signings at 12, such as Bowden (a one-season regular), Bai (a 35-year old definition of short-term) and now de Villiers (signed for less than a season).

I only hope that de Villiers is the last of these short-term stop-gaps and that the (rumoured) incoming marquee player is a genuine long-term option who won't have his head turned by the wages on offer abroad. Tigers really need to start building some consistency because the player turnover for the last few seasons has been excessive and probably a contributing factor to the club's declining performances.

It's possible to simultaneously be optimistic and excited about de Villiers' arrival and a little frustrated that we need to look for a 6-month signing in this situation.
The Boy Dave
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Re: Jean De Villiers - UPDATED - threads merged

Post by The Boy Dave »

Think you have missed the point TBD..we need a 12 that is going to be here long term your point highlights that completely Sarries have well drilled units that have been settled there for years and know their systems and play inside out..obviously clubs lower in the league are more settled but lack quality..

In essence I think we are almost in agreement you just have got the wrong end of the stick..I think JDV will be amazing but he will only be here until hopefully the prem final in May and we need a quality 12 who can grow with us..
I don't think so.
I'd rather have a different high quality player each season than an average one forever.
Your point is that you would prefer quality for the long term, well we had that in Anthony Allen and unfortunately he has had to recently retire so it's upset things a bit.
You do what you can when you can.
I'm just pointing out, all things considered this is a great signing, and even if we already possessed high quality in his position I'd still sign him if I could and have two.
I see reference to another centre above, I assume it's 36 :smt015 .
Like I stated already I'd rather have high quality than average, 12 being a key defensive and organisational position and all!
Cheery chappy
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