England v Ireland Team

[Bill W (2)]

Well my son-in-law thinks Burgess was brilliant and is England's saviour. He is a Liverpool fan who also likes tennis.

Your daughter has much work to do on his education!

[Pinot Tiger]

Anyone that is knocking Tom Youngs is not quite on the money. First his forward pass was mostly due to Jonny May over-running. If May had held the yard behind he should have been, then it wouldn't have been a problem.
Tom's first throw that was fumbled was due to Parling having his arm knocked away by Paul O'Connell, and on one occasion Lawes simply let the ball slip through his fingers under a tad of inevitable pressure. Lest we forget one of the two scrums lost against the head was on Jamie George's first scrum. I'd have TY my team all day long.

[northerntiger]

The press tend to have favoured and non favoured players. It is accepted wisdom that TY can't throw, therefore any lost lineout must be his fault. Lawes and Launchberry are wonderful, therefore even though they play badly they get no criticism, ditto Tom Wood.

[Soggypitch]

Anyone that is knocking Tom Youngs is not quite on the money. First his forward pass was mostly due to Jonny May over-running. If May had held the yard behind he should have been, then it wouldn't have been a problem.
Tom's first throw that was fumbled was due to Parling having his arm knocked away by Paul O'Connell, and on one occasion Lawes simply let the ball slip through his fingers under a tad of inevitable pressure. Lest we forget one of the two scrums lost against the head was on Jamie George's first scrum. I'd have TY my team all day long.

Completely agree, TY had a great game, Ireland targeted the lineout and although they disrupted it, we achieved a 100% success rate, incredible after the Paris fiasco. TY will definitely be the first choice hooker IMO and rightly so.

Thought Robshaw Wood and Morgan had great games and completely outplayed the Irish back row. So many on here have been knocking our back row, why not a word of praise occasionally?!

Farrell did some good things, one bad pass, but it is good to have him to bring on and steady the ship. Burgess tried hard and will come good, but I would have Slade on the bench for Fiji.

Thought Barritt and JJ did well. Obviously the back 3 were excellent.

The bad start to the second half was down to silly errors, not catching two kick offs and conceding a silly turnover, we will improve and if the pack can just concentrate at scrum time, we may surprise a few people....

[Sajerj]

Anyone that is knocking Tom Youngs is not quite on the money. First his forward pass was mostly due to Jonny May over-running. If May had held the yard behind he should have been, then it wouldn't have been a problem.
Tom's first throw that was fumbled was due to Parling having his arm knocked away by Paul O'Connell, and on one occasion Lawes simply let the ball slip through his fingers under a tad of inevitable pressure. Lest we forget one of the two scrums lost against the head was on Jamie George's first scrum. I'd have TY my team all day long.

I have to disagree with you. May could have been deeper, but he was behind Tom by maybe 2 metres.
Tom never gets his body in a position where his arms can swing and delivery a lateral or backward pass. It was just a bad technical pass. A blemish within an otherwise outstanding performance.

[Farmboy]

Everyone mentions TY's forward pass but seem to forget IIRC Browns forward pass near the end. I can see a reason for playing Burgess with Ford as it gives a bit more beef in the midfield with the creativety of Ford rather than solidity of Farrel.

[ellis9]

Everyone mentions TY's forward pass but seem to forget IIRC Browns forward pass near the end. I can see a reason for playing Burgess with Ford as it gives a bit more beef in the midfield with the creativety of Ford rather than solidity of Farrel.

There's no point in having Ford's creativity if you have Burgess outside him. Once the ball comes to Burgess, there is one of only 3 outcomes. He drops it, he tries to pass it and does so but passes it forward or he will run into someone.

[Will S]

There's no point in having Ford's creativity if you have Burgess outside him. Once the ball comes to Burgess, there is one of only 3 outcomes. He drops it, he tries to pass it and does so but passes it forward or he will run into someone.

I think this is harsh. One of our best try's recently was home to France where Burgess laid off a lovely pass to Ford who wrapped around. Burgess is a decent passer. He might not have the distribution of Eastmond but comparing him to the incumbent in Barrett then you certainly aren't losing anything.

[baz1664]

I am not a fan of Barrett but he has to play as he is the only defensive option in the midfield, his tackling and positioning is good, he is not a flair player but manages the midfield well like Ant Allen. For me to start with Burgess would be a disaster, his game management is not up to international standard, yes he makes the odd offload and big tackle but that doesn’t win matches and one of his many mistakes could be costly against the best. At best I would give him a start against Uruguay. Im not anti Burgess but I think to introduce a player to international rugby in a world cup is crazy. I remember Lancasters comments about Cips not being picked because he plays in a specialist position. For me Cips would have been perfect, covers fly half and full back and would allow Farrell to drop in at centre if Barrett picked up an injury. Burgess doesn’t even have a set position so he is clearly not a specialist in any area at the moment.

[Sajerj]

You can relax, Baz. Burgess wont be starting against Fiji. As you say, Barritt had a very good game, and the team will the same assuming no injuries. He may get a start against Uruguay alongside Slade, but other that it will be Barritt and JJ.

[Will S]

Barrett should obviously start. All I was saying is that the idea Burgess can't pass the ball is a myth. IMHO in pretty much every category Burgess is equal to or better than Barritt as an individual player. The one where he falls way short is experience and against the big teams that is vital and why Barritt will wear the 12 shirt.

[mol2]

I am starting to wonder whether Tom would make a quality 7

He was certainly the best 7 on the day.

Joking aside England's line out functioned better because they had the option of more than 2 jumpers in the line out which makes it far harder for the opponents to compete. Whoever was throwing in against France was doomed to struggle - with only 2 possible jumpers all they had to do was lift a lock in each position and the line out was essentially a 50-50 if the French guessed the timing of the throw.

Is Youngs a bit of a lightweight scrummager - possibly but we also need to ask a few other questions? (Although he seems to cope OK against some of the big scrums in European rugby)
Dan Cole doesn't seem to be the old "Demolition Dan" at present, is he carrying another injury?
Neither Marler or Vunipola are the most powerful scrummagers and England are weakened by the absence of a fit Corbisiero.
Is England's quest for mobile locks compromising scrum power?

[JackFlashJonny]

Feel a bit sorry for James Haskell..Has been playing great for a good while now and against France outshone all the backrow when he came on at Twickenham yet most likely to miss out to Wood for his lineout option and performance on Sat..Probably won't even get a spot on the bench as England seem to like to use two 8's..

[jgriffin]

I think Dan is busy compensating for the woeful Marler, trying to hold things together with an underpowered pack.
I agree about Haskell, like some players, he can't win with SL because the blessed only have to be half-fit or have half a good game to be in (Burgess, Wood, Fazlet, Robshaw, Lawes etc).
Having said that, my comment about Wales imploding seems to be coming sadly true, improving England's chances no end.

[leic]

Yes I'm totally biased but please will everyone leave poor TY alone. He's Tigers through and through so every true tigers fan should get behind him. The press and TV commentators can't say a great word about him, but I still find myself watching him amazed at his work around the park and very few appreciate that. We also know his wife has been poorly so goodness knows how he has coped with that, and he never uses that as an excuse. Get behind him rather than knocking him down.