Still stuck in the mud! - Development updates

[Noggs]

Based on the artist impressions the final cantilever beam will be shorter than the others as the corner of the lower half of the seating is cut back to allow for it to angle across and join up with the redeveloped South Stand, whenever that may be.

The canopy is designed to extend some way beyond the start of the cut back and they will need to put in some supporting steel between the edge of the canopy and the end of the seating staging to enable a weather protection screen to be installed. Edge steel will also be required supported from the ends of the cantilever beams to follow the required profile for the roof edge.

The camera angle makes all of this difficult to see but all should become clear when we see it on Friday or for those not going to the game, when the remaining steel and surfaces and fixed in place.

[L Smith]

Is it just me or will close range penalties ricochet off the underside of the roof onto the prawn sandwich munchers?

[Bill W (2)]

My understanding is that the original plan was for the "stand" (with roof) to be complete bt the start of the Premiership fixtures and the rest to be complete by December. The discovery of concrete under the stand resulted in a four week delay. Thie meant the programme was rescheduled so thet the stand (with roof) would be available by the first European game and the remainder put back until January/February.

We are now at least two months behind the original schedule and likely a further month behind the revised schedule.

With regard to "penaalty clauses" someone has (wisely) purchased an indemnity for $650K. I do not know whether this is the club or the contractors.

A six month job will now turn out to take at least 9 if not 12.

[Grumpy of Crumbie]

Disaster!

[fleabane]

Hardly.

[Noggs]

My understanding is that the original plan was for the "stand" (with roof) to be complete bt the start of the Premiership fixtures and the rest to be complete by December. The discovery of concrete under the stand resulted in a four week delay. Thie meant the programme was rescheduled so thet the stand (with roof) would be available by the first European game and the remainder put back until January/February.

We are now at least two months behind the original schedule and likely a further month behind the revised schedule.

With regard to "penaalty clauses" someone has (wisely) purchased an indemnity for $650K. I do not know whether this is the club or the contractors.

A six month job will now turn out to take at least 9 if not 12.

I'm afraid that is a simplistic way of looking at contract delays. Such events effect many different aspects of supply. Large steel sections such as the MetSec cantilever beams will be fabricated, blast cleaned, primed, painted and shipped as part of a continuous production process and as already said space for storage on site is minimal. Hence, when a programme delay occurs the fabricator has to amend his production programme and try to fit the work in alongside other supply commitments he may have.

Similarly, expensive plant hire such as the three cranes that have been used have other planned work programmes with demand on their time so all such conflicting matters have to be constantly rejigged.

It therefore follows that an early 4 week delay in the build programme does not simply mean that all subsequent aspects of the programme will now take place 4 weeks later than originally intended. The whole programme will be under constant review in order to minimise the knock on effects of the original problem. Some aspects of the build may now occur, say, 6 or 8 week later than originally intended but that does not necessarily mean that the overall programme has slipped further. None of us have that information and only time will tell.

[KUSADASI TIGER]

From what information i have been told,the original builders before work started asked for 10 million to build it,since this was not the agreed cost they were told to take a walk.Buckingham were asked to do it but they had already committed to building the new stand at Saints so workforce had to be split.When they looked at the plans they told Tigers that the design of the roof was unsafe and would buckle in high wind,so it had to be redesigned and the Architect was sacked who designed it.All these changes to the original plans have meant the timescale has changed and i doubt the Hospitality section will be completed this season
Information was from the taxi drivers postmans nephews paperboy but i believe it to be true.

[DCATsOLDMAN]

My understanding is that the original plan was for the "stand" (with roof) to be complete bt the start of the Premiership fixtures and the rest to be complete by December. The discovery of concrete under the stand resulted in a four week delay. Thie meant the programme was rescheduled so thet the stand (with roof) would be available by the first European game and the remainder put back until January/February.

We are now at least two months behind the original schedule and likely a further month behind the revised schedule.

With regard to "penaalty clauses" someone has (wisely) purchased an indemnity for $650K. I do not know whether this is the club or the contractors.

A six month job will now turn out to take at least 9 if not 12.

I'm afraid that is a simplistic way of looking at contract delays. Such events effect many different aspects of supply. Large steel sections such as the MetSec cantilever beams will be fabricated, blast cleaned, primed, painted and shipped as part of a continuous production process and as already said space for storage on site is minimal. Hence, when a programme delay occurs the fabricator has to amend his production programme and try to fit the work in alongside other supply commitments he may have.

Similarly, expensive plant hire such as the three cranes that have been used have other planned work programmes with demand on their time so all such conflicting matters have to be constantly rejigged.

It therefore follows that an early 4 week delay in the build programme does not simply mean that all subsequent aspects of the programme will now take place 4 weeks later than originally intended. The whole programme will be under constant review in order to minimise the knock on effects of the original problem. Some aspects of the build may now occur, say, 6 or 8 week later than originally intended but that does not necessarily mean that the overall programme has slipped further. None of us have that information and only time will tell.

As none of us have access to the Critical Path Analysis of this project, the best we can do is to rely on educated guesses.
In some ways, I have found the provision of cameras to be very frustrating because:
1. Two have been out of commission for the majority of the time, and
2. the new one only gives a limited view,
so, except for matchdays, unless we pass the ground every day, we just cannot see the hidden progress on the Aylestone Road frontage.

[Noggs]

From what information i have been told,the original builders before work started asked for 10 million to build it,since this was not the agreed cost they were told to take a walk.Buckingham were asked to do it but they had already committed to building the new stand at Saints so workforce had to be split.When they looked at the plans they told Tigers that the design of the roof was unsafe and would buckle in high wind,so it had to be redesigned and the Architect was sacked who designed it.All these changes to the original plans have meant the timescale has changed and i doubt the Hospitality section will be completed this season
Information was from the taxi drivers postmans nephews paperboy but i believe it to be true.

I believe what you are being told is bull.

A few suitable contractors are normally invited submit closed tenders for work of this kind based on the design drawing and Bills of Quantities and subsequently the client along with the design team select the contractor they wish to go with which is normally based on the lowest tender bid.

The project architects were selected by Tigers because they are specialists in stadia design and they do not do the structural design unless they are a multi-discipline practice with in-house structural engineers.

Detailed design of the structural frame, including the canopy roof, forms a part of the structural submission to Building Control as a part of the process of obtaining Building Regulations Approval and at this stage all of the design details and associated calculations are checked and agreed with Building Control's own structural engineering team. If there are any problems you would expect them to be discovered and addressed at this stage.

The design for dynamic wind loads (including hurricane strength) along with such things as maximum snow loads is basic to the structural design and engineers use sophisticated computer programmes incorporating various agreed loading factors in order to determine such things as steel profile and size; connection details and the design of supporting foundations.

The thing that does not happen is that they wait until the builder gets on site to 'look at the plans' and discover that the design is unsafe. Unless it is a design and build contract (which it isn't)the contractor would not have the in-house skills to check the design nor the need to do so as the design is not his responsibility.

[DCATsOLDMAN]

From what information i have been told,the original builders before work started asked for 10 million to build it,since this was not the agreed cost they were told to take a walk.Buckingham were asked to do it but they had already committed to building the new stand at Saints so workforce had to be split.When they looked at the plans they told Tigers that the design of the roof was unsafe and would buckle in high wind,so it had to be redesigned and the Architect was sacked who designed it.All these changes to the original plans have meant the timescale has changed and i doubt the Hospitality section will be completed this season
Information was from the taxi drivers postmans nephews paperboy but i believe it to be true.

I believe what you are being told is bull.

A few suitable contractors are normally invited submit closed tenders for work of this kind based on the design drawing and Bills of Quantities and subsequently the client along with the design team select the contractor they wish to go with which is normally based on the lowest tender bid.

The project architects were selected by Tigers because they are specialists in stadia design and they do not do the structural design unless they are a multi-discipline practice with in-house structural engineers.

Detailed design of the structural frame, including the canopy roof, forms a part of the structural submission to Building Control as a part of the process of obtaining Building Regulations Approval and at this stage all of the design details and associated calculations are checked and agreed with Building Control's own structural engineering team. If there are any problems you would expect them to be discovered and addressed at this stage.

The design for dynamic wind loads (including hurricane strength) along with such things as maximum snow loads is basic to the structural design and engineers use sophisticated computer programmes incorporating various agreed loading factors in order to determine such things as steel profile and size; connection details and the design of supporting foundations.

The thing that does not happen is that they wait until the builder gets on site to 'look at the plans' and discover that the design is unsafe. Unless it is a design and build contract (which it isn't)the contractor would not have the in-house skills to check the design nor the need to do so as the design is not his responsibility.

I too found what KT was told, odd, to say the least. To bring it down to a domestic level, when my kitchen extension was built, the architect recommended me to employ a structural engineer to work out the size of steels needed and check the design. I would expect nothing less in a multi-million pound build.
Have we seen the last of the big cranes on the dead ball area, or will they return to help install the roof sheets?
Will they turf the dead ball area, or seed it, I wonder?

[Noggs]

The cranes still have much to do. There are still a couple of bays at the 'pointy end' requiring the fixing of the primary roof steel at to date only 3 bays seem to have the roof purlins fitted which will support the roof sheeting.

As well as the need to crane the roof sheeting for fixing they will probably also be needed for lifting wall panels into place along with possible further supporting secondary steel.

Still lots to do but can probably be finished by the end of January providing they have reasonable weather to allow them to get the building waterproof.

[Bill W (2)]

Still lots to do but can probably be finished by the end of January providing they have reasonable weather to allow them to get the building waterproof.

All respect to your consistent defence of the contractors.

I was happy to host an "old friend" (we met at wc 2003 abd have attended many EC matches together as well as two Lions Tours) to the game on Friday, He is a chartered civil engineer who has built motorway bridges and the like.

I will not repeat his views of the contractors and the project management but they were not complimentary.

[Grumpy of Crumbie]

Disaster!!!!

How could Tigers have got it sooooo wrong?

This fantastic new addition to Welford Road, maintaining it as a world class stadium. A great investment for the long term to keep the club at the forefront of English and European rugby.

Supposedly a few weeks late, what are we to do???

[grobyman]

Still lots to do but can probably be finished by the end of January providing they have reasonable weather to allow them to get the building waterproof.

All respect to your consistent defence of the contractors.

I was happy to host an "old friend" (we met at wc 2003 abd have attended many EC matches together as well as two Lions Tours) to the game on Friday, He is a chartered civil engineer who has built motorway bridges and the like.

I will not repeat his views of the contractors and the project management but they were not complimentary.

Easy to be critical from the outside when you are not responsible, assume that from the word 'old friend' someone of a certain age?
We all have park bench expert friends!
As long as the stand is completed at some point why get up tight about it. Friday's events put things into perspective and I don't mean the rugby. Why stress about stuff you cannot influence and are not responsible for?

[MJB]

As long as the stand is completed at some point why get up tight about it. Friday's events put things into perspective and I don't mean the rugby. Why stress about stuff you cannot influence and are not responsible for?

Totally agree with you grobyman. OK, the opening of our new stand may be a couple of months late, but so what? Don't get me wrong - I'm as big a Tigers fan as the next person and am looking forward to seeing our ground improvements completed - but there are more important things in life as the events of Friday night have reminded us.