World cup failure in leicester?

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Coops
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Re: World cup failure in leicester?

Post by Coops » Wed May 27, 2015 8:51 am

I don't really care where the matches are being held to be honest, I'm a rugby fan and will watch it wherever the organisers choose to hold it, whether that be KPS or otherwise. Luckily I have a selection of tickets across the UK including Twickenham, Manchester and KPS; and simply being part of the RWC occasion in England is enough for me.

My kids play rugby and play at a number of different venues across Leicestershire - do we complain when they have to go a club with lesser facilities than our own?

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Re: World cup failure in leicester?

Post by Sajerj » Wed May 27, 2015 9:12 am

Didn't the HC QF require a stadium with a minimum capacity of 30,000?
Also, after the ground sharing deal fell through, Tigers were negotiating to buy Walkers outright until they got permission to expand WR.[/quote][/quote]

i don't believe so. Certainly Tigers played SF at WR the following year with a 16000 crowd.

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Re: World cup failure in leicester?

Post by h's dad » Wed May 27, 2015 10:46 am

Sajerj wrote:Didn't the HC QF require a stadium with a minimum capacity of 30,000?
Also, after the ground sharing deal fell through, Tigers were negotiating to buy Walkers outright until they got permission to expand WR.
[/quote]

i don't believe so. Certainly Tigers played SF at WR the following year with a 16000 crowd.[/quote]
Certainly they didn't. SF was at Walkers against Scarlets with a 30k plus crowd. You must be thinking of the 2007 QF. I'm sure the move was something to do with capacity. Were Tigers obliged to give a certain proportion of tickets in every category to the visitors that would have meant taking tickets away from STH? That would have gone down well. Anybody who knows, feel free to step in.
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Re: World cup failure in leicester?

Post by Tigerbeat » Wed May 27, 2015 10:50 am

Quarter Finals were played agianst Scarlets at the Walkers and then Munster at Welford Road.
Clubs are required to have a minimmum capacity of 15000 (correct me if wrong) and 25% of the tickets are to be available for the opposing team.

The Semi Finals have been played at City Ground, Vicarage Road. None have been at Welford Road.
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Re: World cup failure in leicester?

Post by InGuinnessVeritas » Wed May 27, 2015 11:01 am

Tigerbeat wrote:The Semi Finals have been played at City Ground, Vicarage Road. None have been at Welford Road.
So where did we beat Toulouse 37-11 on Saturday 4th January 1997 in the semi-finals of the Heineken Cup?

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Re: World cup failure in leicester?

Post by Sajerj » Wed May 27, 2015 11:40 am

h's dad wrote:
Sajerj wrote:Didn't the HC QF require a stadium with a minimum capacity of 30,000?
Also, after the ground sharing deal fell through, Tigers were negotiating to buy Walkers outright until they got permission to expand WR.
i don't believe so. Certainly Tigers played SF at WR the following year with a 16000 crowd.[/quote]
Certainly they didn't. SF was at Walkers against Scarlets with a 30k plus crowd. You must be thinking of the 2007 QF. I'm sure the move was something to do with capacity. Were Tigers obliged to give a certain proportion of tickets in every category to the visitors that would have meant taking tickets away from STH? That would have gone down well. Anybody who knows, feel free to step in.[/quote]

H'd, when i said SF i meant Stade Francais, (QF 2006) not Semi Final. All semi finals had to be played on neutral grounds.

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Re: World cup failure in leicester?

Post by Sajerj » Wed May 27, 2015 11:47 am

Tigerbeat wrote:Quarter Finals were played agianst Scarlets at the Walkers and then Munster at Welford Road.
Clubs are required to have a minimmum capacity of 15000 (correct me if wrong) and 25% of the tickets are to be available for the opposing team.

The Semi Finals have been played at City Ground, Vicarage Road. None have been at Welford Road.

It may be the case now, but not back then, and i think WR was big enough even if the rule existed. In 2007 QF's were played at ground like Adam's Park and Stradey Park, which had capacities a little over 10000.

The 2006 QF Tigers vs Bath was moved to Walkers simply owing to demand. WR only held 16,000 and Walkers 32,500.

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Re: World cup failure in leicester?

Post by Bill W (2) » Wed May 27, 2015 3:45 pm

Sajerj wrote: Enlighten me, Bill ? (aside from the crowd being 32500 as Jimmy mentions).
Use of the Walkers Stadium, on those occasions when it was used was dictated by the then HC Regulalations. On one occasion I recall Peter Tom higing a Marquees which was placed on the Car Park and buying Members Tickets from them and offering free booze and grub to give up their tickets.

The breakdown of the Walkers Stadium discussions was not caused by lack of primacy of tenure. It was primarily caused by a failure to agree with the City Board on arrangements for branding the stadium.
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Re: World cup failure in leicester?

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Wed May 27, 2015 3:47 pm

Bill W (2) wrote:
Sajerj wrote: Enlighten me, Bill ? (aside from the crowd being 32500 as Jimmy mentions).
Use of the Walkers Stadium, on those occasions when it was used was dictated by the then HC Regulalations. On one occasion I recall Peter Tom higing a Marquees which was placed on the Car Park and buying Members Tickets from them and offering free booze and grub to give up their tickets.

The breakdown of the Walkers Stadium discussions was not caused by lack of primacy of tenure. It was primarily caused by a failure to agree with the City Board on arrangements for branding the stadium.
they never got as far as primacy of tenure but that would have been a huge issue

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Re: World cup failure in leicester?

Post by Sajerj » Wed May 27, 2015 5:30 pm

Bill W (2) wrote:
Sajerj wrote: Enlighten me, Bill ? (aside from the crowd being 32500 as Jimmy mentions).
Use of the Walkers Stadium, on those occasions when it was used was dictated by the then HC Regulalations. On one occasion I recall Peter Tom higing a Marquees which was placed on the Car Park and buying Members Tickets from them and offering free booze and grub to give up their tickets.
Bill, the only obligation Tigers had was to provide 25% of the tickets to Bath. When they indicated they would take the full 4000 tickets, Tigers initiated the move to Walkers Stadium. Here is the club statement.
_________

David Clayton, managing director, explained why the change of venue had been necessary:
"Heineken Cup regulations stipulate that we must provide 25 per cent of the ground capacity to the visiting team for a quarter-final and Bath has already indicated it requires its full allocation, which at Welford Road would be in excess of 4,000.

"We have over 15,000 season ticket holders and registered members and our main priority is to ensure that they are able to buy a ticket for this game. By switching the venue to Walkers Stadium, we are able to meet their requirements and also those of our sponsors, executive members and the many thousands of Tigers supporters who currently have difficulty in obtaining tickets for matches at Welford Road.

"This season, for the first time, we have had to limit season ticket sales for Heineken Cup pool matches in order to provide the visiting sides with 15 per cent of the stadium capacity. Once again this indicates the need to develop and increase the capacity of Welford Road to meet the ever-increasing demand for Tigers tickets.

"Before making a final decision, we consulted Pat Howard and Richard Cockerill and they are fully supportive of this move and are looking forward to playing in front of a capacity crowd at Walkers Stadium.

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Re: World cup failure in leicester?

Post by Bill W (2) » Wed May 27, 2015 5:38 pm

Plus, as I recall, they had to supply, as I recall some 600 tickets to HC "dignitaries".

I am pleased that you have now managed to correct your previously incorrect assertion.

On Primacy of Tenure, as has been previously pointed out to you, this was never an issue. True it might have become one, but neither RFU, FA, or Premier Rugby had indicated that it would.

I think that has dealt with both of your historical innacuracies.
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Re: World cup failure in leicester?

Post by Sajerj » Wed May 27, 2015 6:08 pm

Happy to be educated on the primacy issue, Bill.

I stand by the statement that the game against Bath was moved solely for additional capacity = money and Tigers voluntarily gave up the home advantage of WR.

All regulatory obligations could have been met by keeping the game at WR. (and perhaps we would have won the game had it stayed at WR).

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Re: World cup failure in leicester?

Post by Cagey Tiger » Wed May 27, 2015 9:05 pm

Sajerj wrote:Happy to be educated on the primacy issue, Bill.

I stand by the statement that the game against Bath was moved solely for additional capacity = money and Tigers voluntarily gave up the home advantage of WR.

All regulatory obligations could have been met by keeping the game at WR. (and perhaps we would have won the game had it stayed at WR).


I would strongly question your last statement. As you posted yourself, Tigers needed 4200+ tickets for Bath. Capacity at WR at the time 16800+, 15000 season ticket holders and members. We don't know the breakdown of members and STH but, as Americans say, do the math. However, I do not disagree that money was definitely a factor in the decision. Given that Tigers are a business, so it should be. I expect that we will disagree about how much of a factor it was or should be however :smt027 :smt023

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Re: World cup failure in leicester?

Post by Bill W (2) » Wed May 27, 2015 9:15 pm

Cagey Tiger wrote:
Sajerj wrote:Happy to be educated on the primacy issue, Bill.

I stand by the statement that the game against Bath was moved solely for additional capacity = money and Tigers voluntarily gave up the home advantage of WR.

All regulatory obligations could have been met by keeping the game at WR. (and perhaps we would have won the game had it stayed at WR).


I would strongly question your last statement. As you posted yourself, Tigers needed 4200+ tickets for Bath. Capacity at WR at the time 16800+, 15000 season ticket holders and members. We don't know the breakdown of members and STH but, as Americans say, do the math. However, I do not disagree that money was definitely a factor in the decision. Given that Tigers are a business, so it should be. I expect that we will disagree about how much of a factor it was or should be however
Let him go Cagey! He has lost the argument. And still missed the point about the ERC dignitaries tickets!
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Re: World cup failure in leicester?

Post by Sajerj » Wed May 27, 2015 10:04 pm

Season ticket holders are not guaranteed a ticket for HC Quarter finals are they ?

Simple fact is Tigers were able to sell WR out twice over for a big game such was the demand. So they moved it voluntarily to Walkers stadium. Their was no obligation that i can see.

No, Bill i am not sure of the relevance of the 600 dignitaries tickets, but as always happy for you to explain why they were relevant in moving the game.

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