Abendanon European Player of the Year

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beech
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Re: Abendanon European Player of the Year

Post by beech » Wed May 06, 2015 2:44 pm

Before joining the press campaign to select French based players for England just remember that they knew the situation when they signed lucrative contacts and obviously were prepared to give up their international careers. I can understand players wanting to move for the money but they cannot be surprised if the RFU maintains the rule. If the rule is lifted we would see an exodus of our best players. If the salary cap was abandoned English clubs could not match the spending power of the French - unless we want more rich benefactors owning the clubs.
tf22

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Re: Abendanon European Player of the Year

Post by Noddy555 » Thu May 07, 2015 10:36 am

For Beech. Nothing that the stuffed shirts at the RFU do surprises anybody, the fact that they can ignore English talent just because they
play abroad is not only stupid it also probably means that it will be decades before England once more lift the World cup. My money is on one of the Southern Hemisphere teams to lift the trophy again this year, probably the All Blacks.

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Re: Abendanon European Player of the Year

Post by beech » Thu May 07, 2015 11:30 am

The 'stuffed shirts of the RFU', of whom I am regularly critical, did not encourage Armitage to sign a new 4 year contract with Toulon last year knowing that this would bar him from playing for England. He made the decision, which is fair enough, but he must noe take the concequencies. I am sure that relaxing the policy will have a serious impact on the English Premiership clubs and this worries me more than the couple of players who can't play for England.
tf22

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Re: Abendanon European Player of the Year

Post by Sajerj » Thu May 07, 2015 11:33 am

Noddy555 wrote:For Beech. Nothing that the stuffed shirts at the RFU do surprises anybody, the fact that they can ignore English talent just because they
play abroad is not only stupid it also probably means that it will be decades before England once more lift the World cup. My money is on one of the Southern Hemisphere teams to lift the trophy again this year, probably the All Blacks.
You think NZ will win it despite having the same policy ? I guess they can as they showed in 2011.
I may be wrong but didn't South Africa also win it in 2007 with the same policy ?

Yet England with a far bigger playing base cannot ?

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Re: Abendanon European Player of the Year

Post by ourla » Thu May 07, 2015 12:02 pm

The irony is that as he himself admitted one of the drivers for his decision to go to play in France was that he was not on Englands radar. And then, according to him, only by the experience of playing in France has he reached a standard that means he can be considered on Englands radar. In another irony since he left Bath, they in turn seemed to have improved and many of their players are being picked for England. Thinking about it I'm a little suspicious that going to France was or is really necessary for player development. Or certainly, if it is, it's and indication of problems in the domestic game. Which have to be addressed. But as it stands I think Abendanon is just the exception that proves the rule.
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Re: Abendanon European Player of the Year

Post by northerntiger » Thu May 07, 2015 12:28 pm

Noddy555 wrote:For Beech. Nothing that the stuffed shirts at the RFU do surprises anybody, the fact that they can ignore English talent just because they
play abroad is not only stupid it also probably means that it will be decades before England once more lift the World cup. My money is on one of the Southern Hemisphere teams to lift the trophy again this year, probably the All Blacks.
Pretty sure Noddy just throws out contentious statements to provoke a response.

To answer it, though, it could be argued that if England's main players played abroad that would have major implications in terms of overplaying and player release. This may well weaken the national team.
As well as the knock on effects on the quality of players in the premiership.

And as others have pointed out, every country with a strong and big enough domestic league operates this policy.

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Re: Abendanon European Player of the Year

Post by G.K » Thu May 07, 2015 1:22 pm

Come along now they know the rules. Anyway we don't want to remove the England coaches fig leaf now do we?
Nowadays referees decide matches, players by how much.

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Re: Abendanon European Player of the Year

Post by Timmers » Thu May 07, 2015 5:13 pm

I was at twickenham at the weekend to watch the final and he looked a class apart. Every time he got the ball he made something happen. It was a pleasure to watch.

My money is on tait having a decent season with Bayonne in a warmer climate and on better pitches....and having licence to roam

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Re: Abendanon European Player of the Year

Post by amazing tiger » Thu May 07, 2015 9:56 pm

lets just put this in to context then. in the past three yaears we have had two englishmen be named european player of the year and they both play for french clubs. they were also ok players in england but never reached their full potential here and look different players abroad and i dont know why. i understand they have license to run but that cant change a player completely. i can understand people saying well they knew they were not going to get picked when they signed the contract but other countries must be laughing at us and thinking we are idiots.

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Re: Abendanon European Player of the Year

Post by Sajerj » Fri May 08, 2015 1:07 am

amazing tiger wrote:lets just put this in to context then. in the past three yaears we have had two englishmen be named european player of the year and they both play for french clubs. they were also ok players in england but never reached their full potential here and look different players abroad and i dont know why. i understand they have license to run but that cant change a player completely. i can understand people saying well they knew they were not going to get picked when they signed the contract but other countries must be laughing at us and thinking we are idiots.
They are playing for better teams with better players. They are playing in teams where positions are not compromised by salary caps. It raises a players performance levels significantly.

My bet is that if you put him back at Bath next year, he would look largely the same player as he was before he left.

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Re: Abendanon European Player of the Year

Post by drc_007 » Fri May 08, 2015 7:17 am

amazing tiger wrote:lets just put this in to context then. in the past three yaears we have had two englishmen be named european player of the year
2013 J Wilkinson
2014 S Armitage
2015 N Abendanon

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Re: Abendanon European Player of the Year

Post by jgriffin » Fri May 08, 2015 9:23 am

It's not a salary cap issue entirely - Abendanon would not see the ball in the depths of a French or English winter when it becomes a forwards-fest.
In the case of Armitage and Abendanon they have been playing in teams with greater resources, but also a different attitude to attack, and one that allows head-up rugby. Too many teams here (Tigers being a major example, alas) seem to have play-by-numbers playbooks that demean the players actual abilities.
Wilko was a different case altogether, but the regime in France allowed him to play and cosseted him when necessary. He was a one-off, and IMO greater in the latter half of his career.
In each case I see them as an indictment of a mentality in English rugby, and World Rugby in general, that systems are everything, the chaos that is the 'breakdown' has become the focus of the game, that offside/blocking/killing the ball is tolerated despite squeezing the life out of attacks. In France, inventiveness is contagious, despite the efforts of a recent line of French coaches.
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Re: Abendanon European Player of the Year

Post by amazing tiger » Fri May 08, 2015 4:36 pm

Sajerj wrote:
amazing tiger wrote:.
They are playing for better teams with better players. They are playing in teams where positions are not compromised by salary caps. It raises a players performance levels significantly.

My bet is that if you put him back at Bath next year, he would look largely the same player as he was before he left.
exactly!!!

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Re: Abendanon European Player of the Year

Post by mol2 » Sat May 09, 2015 2:57 pm

Or perhaps he left because Anthony Watson was looking like he would keep him out of the Bath side?

If you aren't the best English player at your club you might as well take the money as England is way off!

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