Are Leicester Tigers in decline?

[simoscribbler]

I think so. Relative to the other higher spending domestic clubs we're going backwards I think, both on and off the field.

All that stuff about Tigers being a 'working class club' doesn't really hold water for me: where are the local lads coming through into the team then? How many will break through next year? It should be one or two a season, every season. And why are - now especially - good players coming here for a bit then moving on to other English clubs? Why aren't they becoming career-long Tigers, driven by the team's history and the support of the WR faithful?

The management of the club is too conservative, probably throughout - I'm not focussing on RC in particular, impossible to say if he sets or follows the style. Have to say Dai Young has done a great job at Wasps - the way he held them together when it looked as if the club would fold was mighty impressive.

Our current playing style doesn't help either: if I was a neutral I wouldn't be setting the recorder for Tigers games, and - contrary to popular belief - we've played some really exciting stuff over the preceding 15 seasons. Doubt I'm the only one who thinks that our current league position flatters us rather too. TBH I'd almost rather this season ends up as a 6th place finish rather than a play-off spot, because I do think the top 3 or 4 are really quite a bit better than us now. And other sides have injuries too.

But things will improve: I just hope it's with more home grown/home 'developed' players in the match day squads.

[Roly]

I think so. Relative to the other higher spending domestic clubs we're going backwards I think, both on and off the field.

All that stuff about Tigers being a 'working class club' doesn't really hold water for me: where are the local lads coming through into the team then? How many will break through next year? It should be one or two a season, every season. And why are - now especially - good players coming here for a bit then moving on to other English clubs? Why aren't they becoming career-long Tigers, driven by the team's history and the support of the WR faithful?

The management of the club is too conservative, probably throughout - I'm not focussing on RC in particular, impossible to say if he sets or follows the style. Have to say Dai Young has done a great job at Wasps - the way he held them together when it looked as if the club would fold was mighty impressive.

Our current playing style doesn't help either: if I was a neutral I wouldn't be setting the recorder for Tigers games, and - contrary to popular belief - we've played some really exciting stuff over the preceding 15 seasons. Doubt I'm the only one who thinks that our current league position flatters us rather too. TBH I'd almost rather this season ends up as a 6th place finish rather than a play-off spot, because I do think the top 3 or 4 are really quite a bit better than us now. And other sides have injuries too.

But things will improve: I just hope it's with more home grown/home 'developed' players in the match day squads.

Yet when I make the exact same observations, I'm a WUM....

I think some people just can't handle the truth.

[ourla]

Our current playing style doesn't help either: if I was a neutral I wouldn't be setting the recorder for Tigers games, and - contrary to popular belief - we've played some really exciting stuff over the preceding 15 seasons. Doubt I'm the only one who thinks that our current league position flatters us rather too. TBH I'd almost rather this season ends up as a 6th place finish rather than a play-off spot, because I do think the top 3 or 4 are really quite a bit better than us now. And other sides have injuries too.

But things will improve: I just hope it's with more home grown/home 'developed' players in the match day squads.

If we finish 4th we will have done so by beating Exeter and Wasps home and away. And in my book that will mean we are better than them and fully deserving of 4th place. If we lose to Wasps and finish 5th or 6th that will be where we deserve to finish. We will address the issue of the whether 3 teams are quite a bit better than us should we secure 4th.

But just one question: why do you believe "things will improve"?

[ourla]

Yet when I make the exact same observations, I'm a WUM....

I think some people just can't handle the truth.

I had to look up WUM. For those that don't know their urban acronyms, it means wind-up merchant.

You know as well as we do Roly there is no "truth". It's all a matter of opinion. The criteria for decline is as broad as it is long.

[Alatoruk]

you can prove anything with statistics. So both sides of the argument can 'prove' themselves right. The answer is irrelevant. We are what we are. Every season is different. Next season will be a 'start again' with different payers, staff and therefore game plans. so to compare it to this season is unfair.

Either way I still support the club

[simoscribbler]

As to why we will improve: great fans, good facilities, decent finances. Unless the sport goes totally the way of football we will come again. I will always support the Tigers, and try to be sensible in my comments.

These things go in cycles, but I wouldnt want to see us go the way of Bath when the game went pro, and be out in the cold for most of the next twenty years. BUT more than that I would hate to eee us buying success: I really don't believe that we can't grow/develop more young first teamers than we have very recently. Other clubs do it, and the EM is rugby country, isn't it?

[ourla]

you can prove anything with statistics. So both sides of the argument can 'prove' themselves right. The answer is irrelevant. We are what we are. Every season is different. Next season will be a 'start again' with different payers, staff and therefore game plans. so to compare it to this season is unfair.

Either way I still support the club

But most of it isn't about statistics. It's about style of play, players not having the same loyalty to the club, the match day experience, calling an exclusive facility the "clubhouse", our record in Europe (non statistically).

Also we are talking about a decline over a decent period time. Clearly a team can have a poor season but for example Bath were in poor shape for several seasons both on and off the pitch.

And I think the subject is highly relevant with everything going on at the moment.

[Doghashadhisday]

The Tigers are not in decline. It is the standard of the fans that is in decline as evidenced by constant moaning of the doom mongers and the booing. I rest my case m'lud

[ourla]

As to why we will improve: great fans, good facilities, decent finances. Unless the sport goes totally the way of football we will come again. I will always support the Tigers, and try to be sensible in my comments.

These things go in cycles, but I wouldnt want to see us go the way of Bath when the game went pro, and be out in the cold for most of the next twenty years. BUT more than that I would hate to eee us buying success: I really don't believe that we can't grow/develop more young first teamers than we have very recently. Other clubs do it, and the EM is rugby country, isn't it?

Thanks for putting your case. I'll be honest with you, I don't find it very convincing.

My case would be that with Slater, Manu, Croft, Williams back alongside developing talents like Pearce, De Chaves, Balmain, Harrison plus the new recruits we are close to having the personnel. And with Mauger we have some hope of an improvement on the coaching side. Then the off field ground, training facilities, change to academy the club is moving forward their aswell.

That said it's still not going to be as easy as it was 10 years ago both domestically and in Europe.

[Brutus]

The style of play hasn't been hugely exciting over the course of the season but given the limited number of try's that we have managed to score I'd say to be in 4th place now is a pretty good achievement. In terms of winning anything, this season is a write-off and even finishing in he top 4 should now be seen as some progress given the difficult season and remaining fixtures.
I don't think Tigers are in decline, they just haven't caught up with the pace of change of premiership rugby as well as some others. If we have some decent luck with fewer injuries to key players next year (assuming more consistent pool of fit players --> more consistent performances), if the new players settle in quick and if Mauger can get us to be a bit more potent in attack, then this season and last will be remembered as just a blip. Making an impact in Europe is a different story though...

[Cagey Tiger]

The style of play hasn't been hugely exciting over the course of the season but given the limited number of try's that we have managed to score I'd say to be in 4th place now is a pretty good achievement. In terms of winning anything, this season is a write-off and even finishing in he top 4 should now be seen as some progress given the difficult season and remaining fixtures.
I don't think Tigers are in decline, they just haven't caught up with the pace of change of premiership rugby as well as some others. If we have some decent luck with fewer injuries to key players next year (assuming more consistent pool of fit players --> more consistent performances), if the new players settle in quick and if Mauger can get us to be a bit more potent in attack, then this season and last will be remembered as just a blip. Making an impact in Europe is a different story though...

Agreed. However there are a lot of ifs in your second paragraph. Hopefully they will all end up as yeses.

[1979]

I don't think we are particularly in decline, Mighty Mouse and the boy Dave sum my opinion up pretty well.
Given a fully fit squad I think we'd undoubtedly put in better performances than what we've perhaps generally witnessed this season, particularly given the arrival of Mauger to add some much needed experience to the coaching of the backs....which if he is staying, and I hope he is, will greatly benefit Murphy after Maugers 3 year contract expires. Assuming he returns to NZ after that.
Given that we're 4th in the league currently and have beaten the mighty Toulon surely even a moderate improvement would see us back as one of the best teams in Europe!
I don't agree with the injuries us no excuse from some. I find it very difficult to beleive that any other team in the AP would be in 4th or better if they had similar injuries to their squad. I think the boy Dave gave Saints as an example, how would the much lorded Bath have faired this season with our situation? (I think Bath have built a great looking team but am irritated by the constant adoration from the media....Tigers are ruined beyond all hope, Bath whom we were above a couple of rounds ago are all conquering.....while I'm on it when Tigers are suggested to be a has been by the media and question the management how is it that Quinns and O'Shea who might not qualify for Europe aren't even mentioned! #just saying!! )
Slater making captain last season seemed a turning point for our performances so a massive loss in my opinion, Manu, Croft and Allen also out for basically the entire season. If you took Hooper, JJ, Eastmond and Lowe from Bath how fair they? Loamu who I thought was cover for Manu also out all season, Niall Morris injured for most, Williams recently, Dan Cole for a big chunk and many others for smaller periods but still take Ford off Bath for the end of season and similar players to those others we've missed.....they're hardly flying clear of us given that they haven't had these problems so surely without them we can conclude that we'd actually be doing much much better than them!
Are we in a great place this season, no clearly not but I don't think Tigers deserve the criticism being levelled by some.....if this is the worst season we ever have most other teams would like to be us would think.

[Big Dai]

They have declined, that is for sure. but with Mr Mauger and a fit team next year they could be on the up?

[fortysix]

Over the last 15 years, we have declined .

The others have caught up, used resources better, and we are still trying to play and keep the old Tigers philosophy and ideology

Great , would still work if we had some pace and inventivness in the backs a la Gloucester

Our front five forwards are still top tier Euro wide, but our backs are nowhere near... Coaching, bad purchases and lack of attacking management

[mike]

Agree fortysix - our decline from the highs of 2001 is irrefutable .Hopefully the arrival of Mauger will turn things around but if Cockerill still retains control over selection , playing style and recruitment I fear the worst .
Other Clubs have caught up and become much more professional , but we have contributed greatly to our own decline .