Saracens v Tigers

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Smudge
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by Smudge »

TB wrote :
Offer something constructive for a change if you can.
I think you sit on line waiting for any criticism to pounce on.

Do you seriously think the team played well today either forwards or backs? Seriously?
That's OK then. They were brilliant of course. (Too many deep fried mars bars to blame for your blind unquestioning allegiance)
In all the years I have been involved with Tigers we have pretty much always had
a strong and well organised pack. It has been the Tiger's way.

On paper, we put out a near first choice pack today yet they didn't function,
anything like they should have so who should we look to for the reason?
I would say the pack leader and the forwards coach. Maybe it was the waterboy's fault TB?
They lacked leadership, organisation, grunt, know how and the Tiger's will to win.
You can make all the excuses you like for him but those who know, know who to blame.
A life long Tiger
RagingBull
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by RagingBull »

Crumblies wrote:
You don't post on a single win, then as soon as we lose away, you're in again like a broken record. Everyone knows we need a new backs coach, but you manage to be the only person who turns on the pack and make it a get rid of Cockers rant again. I now know why they daren't make me a moderator, you'd have been banned a long time ago. Offer something constructive for a change if you can.
Once again Tigerburnie your hypocrisy is unbelievable if ever someone need to open their eyes and change the record its you!

You want constructive criticism try this: who let George Ford leave our club, don't tell me Cockerill was in no way responsible for that debacle, it was his downright obstinacy, and dreadful man management. Times we have seen favoured players claiming a place they had no right to, whilst others are not given a reasonable run of games. What is Smith doing in the team? he offers absolutely no creativity to the side at all, it's all very well being a capable defender and he is no more than that, but we need to score tries, our stats this year do not lie, they tell the absolute truth about the style of Rugby we have been playing, under Cockerill, it has been truly painful to watch. I see Blaine Scully is the latest to be frozen out, since he is moving on.. What has happened to Catchpole? if Loamanu is fit why wasn't he even on the bench? After Tuilagi, Goneva is our most potent threat but this year he is but a poor imitation of his ability. Small wonder when the DoR can't decide whether he is going to cover for Tuilagi at 13 or play on the wing.
Actually MOC was the main thing with Ford. Just saying. As people like to say MOC was in charge of the backs and selection. Not saying hasn't been poor at man management but MOC was in charge of both Ford and 36 (TBH looking at Leinster you can see he might not have been the best thing for us)

TbH smith isn't that bad and gets a bad rep he was great in the games against Toulon and Exeter I do feel he struggles at times on the wider pitches but some of the attitude he gets is pretty :censored: people.

Scully has been injured and has just recently gotten to match fitness. Would say it would be a hard call to drop Thompstone for Loamanu as well.

Catchpole would like to have seen more of him but I can understand why Cockers hasn't played him as well.
h's dad
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by h's dad »

Crumblies wrote:
You don't post on a single win, then as soon as we lose away, you're in again like a broken record. Everyone knows we need a new backs coach, but you manage to be the only person who turns on the pack and make it a get rid of Cockers rant again. I now know why they daren't make me a moderator, you'd have been banned a long time ago. Offer something constructive for a change if you can.
Once again Tigerburnie your hypocrisy is unbelievable if ever someone need to open their eyes and change the record its you!

You want constructive criticism try this: who let George Ford leave our club, don't tell me Cockerill was in no way responsible for that debacle, it was his downright obstinacy, and dreadful man management. Times we have seen favoured players claiming a place they had no right to, whilst others are not given a reasonable run of games. What is Smith doing in the team? he offers absolutely no creativity to the side at all, it's all very well being a capable defender and he is no more than that, but we need to score tries, our stats this year do not lie, they tell the absolute truth about the style of Rugby we have been playing, under Cockerill, it has been truly painful to watch. I see Blaine Scully is the latest to be frozen out, since he is moving on.. What has happened to Catchpole? if Loamanu is fit why wasn't he even on the bench? After Tuilagi, Goneva is our most potent threat but this year he is but a poor imitation of his ability. Small wonder when the DoR can't decide whether he is going to cover for Tuilagi at 13 or play on the wing.
Tigerburnie is right about the shortage of posts from Smudge re winning games. Even if he said; well, a win is a win but we could have done this that and the other better, it would be something. Your opening comments about George Ford being allowed to leave show a lack of comprehension that distracts from anything of merit in the rest of your post.
I am neither clever enough to understand nor stupid enough to play this game
ellis9
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by ellis9 »

Once again Tigerburnie your hypocrisy is unbelievable if ever someone need to open their eyes and change the record its you!

You want constructive criticism try this: who let George Ford leave our club, don't tell me Cockerill was in no way responsible for that debacle, it was his downright obstinacy, and dreadful man management. Times we have seen favoured players claiming a place they had no right to, whilst others are not given a reasonable run of games. What is Smith doing in the team? he offers absolutely no creativity to the side at all, it's all very well being a capable defender and he is no more than that, but we need to score tries, our stats this year do not lie, they tell the absolute truth about the style of Rugby we have been playing, under Cockerill, it has been truly painful to watch. I see Blaine Scully is the latest to be frozen out, since he is moving on.. What has happened to Catchpole? if Loamanu is fit why wasn't he even on the bench? After Tuilagi, Goneva is our most potent threat but this year he is but a poor imitation of his ability. Small wonder when the DoR can't decide whether he is going to cover for Tuilagi at 13 or play on the wing.
Wow! George Ford wanted more 1st team rugby at a time when we had Toby Flood with us. Tigers did not "let" Ford leave, they offered him a contract and so did Bath (Daddy). He chose the offer of Bath. What the hell do you think Cockerill and Tigers should have done?! Offered him £999,999 per year and tell him you will play every game for us?

No one, whoever they are, should demand a starting place or more game time. Ford had a good amount of game time with us, just check out the stats if you don't believe me, he just chose to play for his Dad at Bath. I was also annoyed that he decided to leave but it has been almost 2 seasons since he left. GET OVER IT!!
tigercaspian
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by tigercaspian »

Not really a surprise, was it ??
We always lose at Sarries and badly......
Timing this year is a bit unfortunate though
They certainly worked harder than we did and deserved their win
Smudge
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by Smudge »

Ellis wrote:-
Wow! George Ford wanted more 1st team rugby at a time when we had Toby Flood with us. Tigers did not "let" Ford leave, they offered him a contract and so did Bath (Daddy). He chose the offer of Bath. What the hell do you think Cockerill and Tigers should have done?! Offered him £999,999 per year and tell him you will play every game for us?

No one, whoever they are, should demand a starting place or more game time. Ford had a good amount of game time with us, just check out the stats if you don't believe me, he just chose to play for his Dad at Bath. I was also annoyed that he decided to leave but it has been almost 2 seasons since he left. GET OVER IT!!
You clearly know nothing. GF could and should have been so tied into Tigers that an army of fathers could not have poached him away. To loose a talent like that was managerial ineptitude of a gross nature.
Who can get over it when he is lauding it up on the world stage, when so many at Tigers feel as I do and so many in the greater world that it was stupidity to loose such a prize asset.
A life long Tiger
Big Dai
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by Big Dai »

h's dad wrote:
Big Dai wrote:
h's dad wrote:Ellis has only said it is possible to make the top 4 and if this happens it is possible to get to, and win, the final. I would hardly call this misplaced optimism. Top four is achievable and then it's one game at a time.
There is a significant difference between what is possible and what is probable.
You're excused. The Welsh are expected to be miserable.
I'm not Welsh! Just worked in an office with Little Dai, so became Big Dai. Perhaps it would have been funnier the other way round?

It's not miserable to understand the difference between possibility and probability.
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Bar stool philosopher in the "Wilted Daffodil"
h's dad
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by h's dad »

Big Dai wrote:I'm not Welsh! Just worked in an office with Little Dai, so became Big Dai. Perhaps it would have been funnier the other way round?

It's not miserable to understand the difference between possibility and probability.
There is clearly a level of infection, whether it is beyond cure I am not medically qualified to say although excessive intake of quality alcohol may delay the symptoms.
I am neither clever enough to understand nor stupid enough to play this game
Big Dai
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by Big Dai »

h's dad wrote:
Big Dai wrote:I'm not Welsh! Just worked in an office with Little Dai, so became Big Dai. Perhaps it would have been funnier the other way round?

It's not miserable to understand the difference between possibility and probability.
There is clearly a level of infection, whether it is beyond cure I am not medically qualified to say although excessive intake of quality alcohol may delay the symptoms.
I accept your diagnosis! BRING ON THE REMY! :smt030
Exile Wigstonite living in Wales.
Poet laureate of the "One Eyed Turk".
Bar stool philosopher in the "Wilted Daffodil"
Spicer
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by Spicer »

For once I am unemotional about all this. I expected to lose to Sarries away and we did. We are not a top team this season.
LE18
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by LE18 »

I think there were 2 factors that really cost us the game today. We were doing pretty well in the first half until Tom got yellow carded, but did anyone count, I think it was Tom's 5th penalty he gave away on his way to getting an absolutely stupid in at the side card, it came at a time when we were ahead, but only just.

The other factor I believe was our lack of speed, slow to get ball away, 3 charge downs in the first 5-10 mins, they had loads of speed/ pace ball in hand, we really were so slow, hence predictable, certainly could not get around opponent so took it up straight into their very well organised defence.

Lets face it, we were not good enough to win today. Got to regroup if we are going to make the play offs. Incidentally where is Roberts, he is possibly our quickest centre, we could have done with his speed but I guess we selected for defence today!
ellis9
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by ellis9 »

You clearly know nothing. GF could and should have been so tied into Tigers that an army of fathers could not have poached him away. To loose a talent like that was managerial ineptitude of a gross nature.
Who can get over it when he is lauding it up on the world stage, when so many at Tigers feel as I do and so many in the greater world that it was stupidity to loose such a prize asset.
Ok as the Director of Rugby of the Century as you seem to be and as I "know nothing" how "should" Ford have been tied to Tigers so no one could tempt him away?

Can you also explain why you feel I know nothing?
fortysix
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by fortysix »

Crikey, Smudge is 150% correct, some of you are so tunnel visioned it is laughable !!!

It is OK to defend our team when they play badly, but when it is consistently unstructured, -even when our forwards get us a win----------- then the supporters who pay good money to travel and watch Tigers lose , as they did today, without any seeming nous or passion from some individuals, , then the doom mongers have every right to put their case forward.

I am 68, and have been a fanatical fan since I was born, as my Father played for the Tigers.

It is a different game now, as in most sports, far fitter far faster far more horrible hits on ever decreasing careers. But much much cleaner, that is the paradox.

But now Tigers , and the twin Petes have let things lapse, and the downward spiral is unfortunately well under way

Yes we are in the Top 4 Premiership but as Austin said today, well out of contention in Europe. Sad, but no longer a top team in any context. He said it, not me !!


Whether Mauger el al can improve it , only time will tell

I am an optimist in my work and playtime, but as Tigers stand at present, I am most certainly not. Sorry !!!

Rumours still abound that RC is off........
Spicer
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by Spicer »

LE18 wrote:I think there were 2 factors that really cost us the game today. We were doing pretty well in the first half until Tom got yellow carded, but did anyone count, I think it was Tom's 5th penalty he gave away on his way to getting an absolutely stupid in at the side card, it came at a time when we were ahead, but only just.

The other factor I believe was our lack of speed, slow to get ball away, 3 charge downs in the first 5-10 mins, they had loads of speed/ pace ball in hand, we really were so slow, hence predictable, certainly could not get around opponent so took it up straight into their very well organised defence.

Lets face it, we were not good enough to win today. Got to regroup if we are going to make the play offs. Incidentally where is Roberts, he is possibly our quickest centre, we could have done with his speed but I guess we selected for defence today!
Roberts got injured away at Newcastle if I remember correctly. I would be suriously concider playing him if he was fit. I also think we should cosider playing Catchpole more as well.
TigerLad
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by TigerLad »

h's dad wrote:
TigerLad wrote:
ellis9 wrote:Right, time for my moan and it's not at the team, it is at some of the most idiotic, pathetic and downright stupid comments on this forum.

We have had:
-People saying we have the worst backs in Tigers history
-The players show no passion or desire
-Our season is over
-People who cannot wait until next season
-Apparently a "Club our size" should be in the final every season and winning it pretty much, if not every season!

Well, we currently find ourselves in 4th position. The lowest position we will be after the weekends games will be 5th. We have won only one less game than both Bath and Saracens and we have lost only one more game than Saracens and the same amount as Bath.

We can still finish in the top 4.

I don't think I have ever seen Tigers players with no passion or desire. We may have been poor today but you are completely insane to suggest the players were not trying.

We do not currently have the worst backs 11-14 in Tigers history, it is not easy when we keep having to play different players most weeks.

Our season is over? No it clearly isn't. We can still get a top 4 position and still win the final at Twickenham.

People cannot wait until next season? See you next season then. Don't bother turning up to matches for the rest of this season if that's how you really feel.

A club "our size" should be in the final and winning it most seasons? What godforsaken right do Tigers have to be the Champions every or most seasons? None! Just because we are the biggest club in England it does not mean we "should" be winning the title every year. What sort of idiotic, arrogant statement is that?!

I am completely fed up of so called supporters throwing everything and anything they can think of that is negative towards our club.

We were minutes away from a Premiership Final last season and can still make one this season. Until it is mathematically impossible that we cannot qualify in a top 4 position, then our hunt to win the trophy back is still on!
You've completely misunderstood what I'm saying. A club our size should be 'targeting' winning the league every year. That doesn't mean it's the end of the world or that everyone should be sacked if we don't, but clearly if we don't win the league then we haven't achieved what we should be setting out to do. So a disappointing season. That's all I'm saying. When people are saying the season is over they mean that as a team we don't seem to have it this year. We may finish top 4 but I can't see us winning away at Barf or Stains as much as I want us to. That doesn't mean I don't support the team it purely means I'm realistic with my expectations for this season. I agree with you on the passion point. They didn't lack passion today they were simply outclassed in most aspects of the game by the better side.
You'll have to excuse our confusion:
TigerLad wrote:Not winning the league has to be considered a failure
I don't know why this is so difficult to understand. Not winning the league is a failure, we lost, we failed in our quest to win the league, failure. That doesn't mean we can't learn from these seasons and use them to do better in future seasons. I'm not calling for anyone to be fired. Failures can be learnt from and all the best sides in every sport go through them.
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