Sarries record debt
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Sarries record debt
Sarries have posted the largest debt in Rugby history
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... story.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... story.html
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Re: Sarries record debt
One of the things about Saints' defeat against Clermont is that it gives Mr Wray a reason to stand up on his soapbox again about removing the salary cap - English teams can't compete against the French etc. etc. (although slightly strange considering Sarries' debt position). I think you only need to look at the Aviva league table to see that the salary cap is achieving what it set out to do.
I also think that the French system is making their National team weaker - in the same way that the football premier league has not helped the England Football team.
The article in the mail does raise some interesting questions - a salary bill of £9.1m? Maybe they do have some very highly paid admin staff?
I also think that the French system is making their National team weaker - in the same way that the football premier league has not helped the England Football team.
The article in the mail does raise some interesting questions - a salary bill of £9.1m? Maybe they do have some very highly paid admin staff?
Re: Sarries record debt
Maybe Splashton's doing the books?Dominichi wrote:One of the things about Saints' defeat against Clermont is that it gives Mr Wray a reason to stand up on his soapbox again about removing the salary cap - English teams can't compete against the French etc. etc. (although slightly strange considering Sarries' debt position). I think you only need to look at the Aviva league table to see that the salary cap is achieving what it set out to do.
I also think that the French system is making their National team weaker - in the same way that the football premier league has not helped the England Football team.
The article in the mail does raise some interesting questions - a salary bill of £9.1m? Maybe they do have some very highly paid admin staff?
Nowadays referees decide matches, players by how much.
Re: Sarries record debt
I suspect that is all down to the coach.Dominichi wrote:I also think that the French system is making their National team weaker - in the same way that the football premier league has not helped the England Football team.
Re: Sarries record debt
The real danger is Wray and/or the saffer backers suddenly decide enough is enough and walk away. They now carry a huge overhead and as such would go down the pan very quickly. Yet another reason to keep the cap and not to ring fence.
I also find it strange that the investigations into breached of the cap are taking so long with no reporting of progress
I also find it strange that the investigations into breached of the cap are taking so long with no reporting of progress
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Re: Sarries record debt
It wouldn't surprise me if Wray took his ball and moved the whole team over to France, where his dubious accounting ploys would attract no attention, and he could buy his way to glory. He isn't interested in building a team in the traditional way, so he'd fit perfectly in France where it's the bank, not the training park, which determines who wins.
Re: Sarries record debt
Salary cap investigations are very much behind closed doors. This is laid down in the regulations. Don't expect to hear very much that is authoritative at all unless points deductions are involved. I find this level of secrecy regrettable.Noggs wrote:The real danger is Wray and/or the saffer backers suddenly decide enough is enough and walk away. They now carry a huge overhead and as such would go down the pan very quickly. Yet another reason to keep the cap and not to ring fence.
I also find it strange that the investigations into breached of the cap are taking so long with no reporting of progress
Mr Wray certainly seems to be a very unsavoury individual. I hope his bluster is due to him twisting and turning on a hook. He is no good for rugby or, in the longer term, Saracens.
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Re: Sarries record debt
I suspect the cap investigation is somewhat (commercially) sensitive and, rightfully until published, confidential.Noggs wrote:The real danger is Wray and/or the saffer backers suddenly decide enough is enough and walk away. They now carry a huge overhead and as such would go down the pan very quickly. Yet another reason to keep the cap and not to ring fence.
I also find it strange that the investigations into breached of the cap are taking so long with no reporting of progress
It's good to see recognition of the unsustainable mess (a la English football - Bolton, £170m+ in debt) that some premiership owners want us to go down. Even if Sarries were generating Tigers' levels of profit, that a lot of adept to pay off over half a century or so!
Re: Sarries record debt
By reporting progress on the cap investigations I am only meaning that an indication is given of when the results of the investigation are going to be reported; one month; six months; never . All has gone very quiet on the subject which gives me some concern.
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Re: Sarries record debt
Anyone seen Gloucester are up for sale (would have talks) with the right calibre of ownership...looks like they want a sugar daddy to bank roll them like their West Country foes
Also Saracens are such a joke of a plastic club these losses just highlight everything wrong about the modern club game
Also Saracens are such a joke of a plastic club these losses just highlight everything wrong about the modern club game
Re: Sarries record debt
With a company wage bill of £9+ million - one can only assume that they are paying their coaching and admin staff a small fortune!
Some losses can be tax ploys I guess and some debts can be ring fenced and effectively written off without ever having to pay them (not suggesting that is what they intend to do) but it does leave the club very vulnerable to the whims of their sponsors.
Some losses can be tax ploys I guess and some debts can be ring fenced and effectively written off without ever having to pay them (not suggesting that is what they intend to do) but it does leave the club very vulnerable to the whims of their sponsors.
Re: Sarries record debt
I think Premier League Rugby should step in and prevent sugar daddies or mommies from saddling teams with a load of debt. If they want to throw their own money into a club, more fool them but we (the remaining teams) shouldn't be in the invidious position of having to compete with year on year loss-making clubs as this will lead to a race to the bottom.
I think that an agreed debt-to-turnover percentage, aggregated over 3 years seems fair and will allow clubs to take on serviceable debt and invest in growth
I think that an agreed debt-to-turnover percentage, aggregated over 3 years seems fair and will allow clubs to take on serviceable debt and invest in growth
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man
Re: Sarries record debt
L Smith wrote:I think Premier League Rugby should step in and prevent sugar daddies or mommies from saddling teams with a load of debt. If they want to throw their own money into a club, more fool them but we (the remaining teams) shouldn't be in the invidious position of having to compete with year on year loss-making clubs as this will lead to a race to the bottom.
I think that an agreed debt-to-turnover percentage, aggregated over 3 years seems fair and will allow clubs to take on serviceable debt and invest in growth
So if hypothetical Saracens had not done what they had done over the last 5-6 years, do you believe English rugby would be in a better position ?
Re: Sarries record debt
Difficult to say.Sajerj wrote:L Smith wrote:I think Premier League Rugby should step in and prevent sugar daddies or mommies from saddling teams with a load of debt. If they want to throw their own money into a club, more fool them but we (the remaining teams) shouldn't be in the invidious position of having to compete with year on year loss-making clubs as this will lead to a race to the bottom.
I think that an agreed debt-to-turnover percentage, aggregated over 3 years seems fair and will allow clubs to take on serviceable debt and invest in growth
So if hypothetical Saracens had not done what they had done over the last 5-6 years, do you believe English rugby would be in a better position ?
That's not my argument, however. I have a problem with any club in any sport, who's success is based on debt. It forces other teams into higher debt in order to remain competitive. It also creates abnormal wage inflation which, in turn, forces clubs to spend more, just to tread water.
A global cap, unilaterally enforced, with sensible allowances for home grown players is the only thing that will prevent a wendyball type descent into madness.
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man
Re: Sarries record debt
I think its fair to say that Saracens current position is not good for English rugby, they can not survive if the backers decide to take their money and go somewhere else. When thats happens they will be left in a whole load of trouble and will drop down the leagues, this is not good for rugby at all.Sajerj wrote:L Smith wrote:I think Premier League Rugby should step in and prevent sugar daddies or mommies from saddling teams with a load of debt. If they want to throw their own money into a club, more fool them but we (the remaining teams) shouldn't be in the invidious position of having to compete with year on year loss-making clubs as this will lead to a race to the bottom.
I think that an agreed debt-to-turnover percentage, aggregated over 3 years seems fair and will allow clubs to take on serviceable debt and invest in growth
So if hypothetical Saracens had not done what they had done over the last 5-6 years, do you believe English rugby would be in a better position ?