2014/15 Rumours/Contracts/Signings part 3

[sam16111986]

I thought Fitzgerald was a straight up replacement for Deacs. We certainly have missed his ability in the tight.

[FrontRowUnionMember]

Unless I've missed something then so far we've signed some fairly average players, mainly from the SH?? With Parling, Gibson, Salvi leaving I'm struggling to see how our squad will be better next season?

How much do you know about these signings?

Gibson is being replaced by Williams. Gibson is a 6.5 with a great work rate, line out skills and good at the breakdown. Williams is a monster who can also play lock, mobile with a tendency for big hits (there's a video on YouTube of him smashing Mulipola) he won't do the breakdown work as well but he's got the same work rate and so much more power both in the tackle and ball in hand. He'll be a god send come the colder months.

Salvi is being replaced by O'Connor. Well Salvi is a tackle machine and a scavenger at the breakdown. I think we'll see the same from O'Connor when he's here. Remember Salvi was a penalty machine when he signed. He refined well here and his Kiwi replacement is a more physical, abrasive player who offers more in the line out. I think we'll be able to refine him just as we did Salvi.

Parling isn't being replaced by a signing. He's the second best line out lock at the club on a big contract with an injury list longer than your arm. Kitchener has already overtaken him and De Chaves is developing nicely. His salary can be used elsewhere to strengthen the squad.

I'm actually really looking forward to seeing the big, abrasive and powerful pack we are going to have next season. We are going to be far more competitive in the big games.

I agree with this. If you look at the damage Vunipola did from the base of the scrum in the Sarries v Tigers game. That series of scrums the attention was all on Vunipola. I think Fonua can bring that same threat. I think regardless of Parling's decision, Slater and Kitchener was likely to be our first choice lock partnership. As you say, De Chaves has progressed well this season, to give us continuity if/when ES and GK are pulled into the England setup. Fitzgerald adds to that.
In effect, Kitchener has moved into Parling's role as main lineout lock, De Chaves into Kitchener's old role as next in line, with Fitzgerald replacing Deacon as the workhorse. Then it is a case of who steps into De Chaves's shoes as backup lock, now Price has also gone, will it be one of Whetton/Peterson, or will Williams be expected to slide in.

O'Connor is a straight swap for Salvi in terms of natural 7, and to be fair, Kiwi's do tend to churn out pretty decent 7's. Williams is replacing Gibson as 6, so who is replacing Barbieri as 6/7/8 backup? McCafferey? Seems more of a 6/8 and less of a 7, but we'll see.

Fitzgerald fits the bill of experience being lost with Parling. The worst case for us next season is losing either or both or Slater and Kitchener to international squads; that would leave De Chaves as the most experienced lock.

Having Fitzgerald gives the depth required without putting heaps of pressure on the young guns (after all, on paper, we started this season with 5 experienced international class locks in the squad!) - I suspect Whetton may end up staying as a longer term project, but Peterson appears to have dropped of the radar a little (or is he injured?)

Yeah, I'm expecting one to be retained in De Chaves old role as project/backup for LV and International periods.

[JackFlashJonny]

Quins still hopeful on Roberts...

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,2588 ... 12,00.html

[4071]

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Salvi is being replaced by O'Connor. Well Salvi is a tackle machine and a scavenger at the breakdown. I think we'll see the same from O'Connor when he's here. Remember Salvi was a penalty machine when he signed. He refined well here and his Kiwi replacement is a more physical, abrasive player who offers more in the line out. I think we'll be able to refine him just as we did Salvi.

Salvi was not a penalty machine when he signed. This is simply nonsense and the same guff is being repeated day after day after day by people trying to convince themselves we made Salvi who he is today.

He was a penalty machine for a few months at Bath under refereeing interpretations that basically destroyed the ruck. The moment those interpretations were officially changed, Salvi's penalty count halved. For the rest of that season he was playing exactly the same way for Bath as he does for us now, which is why he was voted the club's Forward of the Season and was runner up for Player of the Season.

We signed him because of the way he played at Bath, not in spite of it.

I was even pointing this out before he arrived here when people were trotting out the 'penalty machine' line when news of the signing was announced.

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Parling isn't being replaced by a signing. He's the second best line out lock at the club...

Uh huh... right....

I get why we are letting him go: big contract, replacement coming through already, fewer years left in him, injury record. But he's our best lineout forward and probably our best second row. If money were no object, we would keep him and he would be starting when fit next season as well.

[RagingBull]

Yeh Parling is the Best lineout forward we have tactically.

Croft is the best lineout forward athletically.

I would say Parling would start of as a starter next season, but Kitchener would be putting pressure on him and wouldn't be surpise if he had overtaken him eventually.

Salvi was a bit penalty machine even when he was with the brumbies but TBH all 7's are like that really as said by 4071 the rules were chanign alot round then as well.

We didn't make him the player he is now but he sorted out his discipline (Or should i say his ability to read the ref) with us whether that was through maturity or us who knows i think a bit of both.

[4071]

O'Connor is a straight swap for Salvi in terms of natural 7, and to be fair, Kiwi's do tend to churn out pretty decent 7's. Williams is replacing Gibson as 6, so who is replacing Barbieri as 6/7/8 backup? McCafferey? Seems more of a 6/8 and less of a 7, but we'll see.

Barbieri isn't really a 7 either - I don't think he played there except for us, whereas at least McCaffrey has played along the back-row. As a like-for-like signing I don't see that we are missing out on much, if anything.

I think he'll turn out to be a pretty astute signing, and he's already got Premiership experience of course (even if it's at the wrong end of the table...)

[RagingBull]

Yeh whilst Barbieri played 7 for italy he never felt like a 7 even watching him play 7 for us he was a 6/7 in a 8 shirt so McCaffrey will be a cheaper player who will fill a similar role and he has looked good for Welsh considering the state of the team.

[sam16111986]

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Salvi is being replaced by O'Connor. Well Salvi is a tackle machine and a scavenger at the breakdown. I think we'll see the same from O'Connor when he's here. Remember Salvi was a penalty machine when he signed. He refined well here and his Kiwi replacement is a more physical, abrasive player who offers more in the line out. I think we'll be able to refine him just as we did Salvi.

Salvi was not a penalty machine when he signed. This is simply nonsense and the same guff is being repeated day after day after day by people trying to convince themselves we made Salvi who he is today.

He was a penalty machine for a few months at Bath under refereeing interpretations that basically destroyed the ruck. The moment those interpretations were officially changed, Salvi's penalty count halved. For the rest of that season he was playing exactly the same way for Bath as he does for us now, which is why he was voted the club's Forward of the Season and was runner up for Player of the Season.

We signed him because of the way he played at Bath, not in spite of it.

I was even pointing this out before he arrived here when people were trotting out the 'penalty machine' line when news of the signing was announced.

.
Parling isn't being replaced by a signing. He's the second best line out lock at the club...

Uh huh... right....

I get why we are letting him go: big contract, replacement coming through already, fewer years left in him, injury record. But he's our best lineout forward and probably our best second row. If money were no object, we would keep him and he would be starting when fit next season as well.

Both of those are matters of opinion. I wasn't a fan of Salvi's at Bath (though clearly the Bath fans were) and feel he is certainly a very different player now to when he started at the club. I was more enthused about the signing once I saw him play in a Tigers shirt and after he'd settled in. A loss to the team but not to the level some on here are making out.

Parling that is a matter of opinion as well. I'd take both Slater and Kitchener before Parling. Geoff has been a great servant to the club but time moves on and if it came down to keeping Kitch or him I'd be keeping Kitchener. Our lineout has worked just as well with Parling as without him this season and that is with us missing Croft for the most part. He'll do well at the Chiefs replacing Mumm but I think our pack will be a lot stronger this next season than this.

[L Smith]

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Parling isn't being replaced by a signing. He's the second best line out lock at the club...

.
Uh huh... right....

I get why we are letting him go: big contract, replacement coming through already, fewer years left in him, injury record. But he's our best lineout forward and probably our best second row. If money were no object, we would keep him and he would be starting when fit next season as well.

Did you just say, "If money were no object"?
That sounds like it would make a good title for a new thread, 4071!

[KevinR]

I watched Fitzgerald again this morning. He came off the bench to replace Rettalick and was mighty impressive. You are doing him a grave disservice if you see him as a 'workhorse' or merely good in the tight. From what I've seen, he has all of Deacon's grunt, but gets around the park to hit ruck after ruck. If I had to bet on one of our signings from down under emerging as a stand-out player, it would be Mike Fitzgerald.

[4071]

Parling that is a matter of opinion as well. I'd take both Slater and Kitchener before Parling. Geoff has been a great servant to the club but time moves on and if it came down to keeping Kitch or him I'd be keeping Kitchener.

Two different comments.

One: Of course it's a matter of opinion whether Parling would be first choice if all options were available. By stunning coincidence, it appears that you think that the player who has decided to leave us wouldn't be your first choice anyway. That's your opinion. In my opinion and in the opinions of the guys who have had the power to select the Leicester, England and Lions squads, Parling is our No1 lock. He starts for us when fit. Kitch and Slater don't.

However, on to your second point, I'd have to agree. In a sense we have been given a choice (we could have outbid Exeter, I expect) and have chosen to let Parling go. Not because he's not our first choice lock, but because Kitchener is right on his tail, is younger, cheaper (I expect), has potential to keep improving and is available for longer periods of the season (either due to fitness or international selection). We'd like to keep both players, but given a choice I'd also prefer to keep Kitchener.

If we were able to keep both players, there is no saying who would be first choice by the end of next season. Kitchener is getting better, Parling is at his peak.

[RagingBull]

Parling that is a matter of opinion as well. I'd take both Slater and Kitchener before Parling. Geoff has been a great servant to the club but time moves on and if it came down to keeping Kitch or him I'd be keeping Kitchener.

Two different comments.

One: Of course it's a matter of opinion whether Parling would be first choice if all options were available. By stunning coincidence, it appears that you think that the player who has decided to leave us wouldn't be your first choice anyway. That's your opinion. In my opinion and in the opinions of the guys who have had the power to select the Leicester, England and Lions squads, Parling is our No1 lock. He starts for us when fit. Kitch and Slater don't.

However, on to your second point, I'd have to agree. In a sense we have been given a choice (we could have outbid Exeter, I expect) and have chosen to let Parling go. Not because he's not our first choice lock, but because Kitchener is right on his tail, is younger, cheaper (I expect), has potential to keep improving and is available for longer periods of the season (either due to fitness or international selection). We'd like to keep both players, but given a choice I'd also prefer to keep Kitchener.

If we were able to keep both players, there is no saying who would be first choice by the end of next season. Kitchener is getting better, Parling is at his peak.

I think that is a fair assessment.

Although I think Slater would be first choice out of the 2 at Leicester considering he is club captain.

[tigerburnie]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32449263
Is there anyway anyone else will compete next year in the European Champions Cup.

[L Smith]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32449263
Is there anyway anyone else will compete next year in the European Champions Cup.

Well, at 53 caps, that means Australia would need to reach the final with Quade playing all 7 games, for him to be eligible for international call ups, post World Cup. I don't fancy his chances!

[RagingBull]

I'm fine with that signing he is a good player when confident and gets front ball but he can be got to without to much trouble if not.

He isn't a 10 I would be particularly scared of Leicester facing TBH.