Times Up!

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TigerCam
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Re: Times Up!

Post by TigerCam » Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:02 pm

bc wrote:It has been mentioned on numerous posts and caused huge angst amongst supporters but time is now up on Director of Rugby, Richard Cockerill. He has overseen the steady decline of a great and leading rugby club which has always been innovative.
This evening's game demonstrated the lack of imagination he brings - despite all the procession we only had one approach - crash, bang, wallop! No off loading game, no dummy runners and different running lines. That all comes from coaching, you can't expect players to do that off the cuff and on the day.
Of course, this post will receive the usual abuse that comes with any criticism but I have the best interests of the club at heart - I have renewed by season ticket. The board need to really stand up and sort this out - I would also suggest that Simon Cohen's position should be under scrutiny.
The decline has gone on for too long.
"Of course, this post will receive the usual abuse that comes with any criticism but I have the best interests of the club at heart " Not from me it won't - I totally agree
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BengalTiger
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Re: Times Up!

Post by BengalTiger » Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:12 pm

Any and every defeat brings out the same sad bunch calling for the head of RC, If he had the budget of Toulon with 2 or 3 top class players in every position to pick from we would be odds on favorites to win the thing.
Grow up and get real, no one I can think of could have managed the injury crisis of the past two seasons and come out on top.
You have a monochrome view and have nothing constructive to say just one topic, sack RC and all will be rosy again,if the solution was as simple as you lot, we would win every game next season.

4071
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Re: Times Up!

Post by 4071 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:37 pm

ellis9 wrote:
For all those who say that calling for Cockerill to go but have no solutions here you go:

DOR - MJ
Head Coach & Attack - Aaron Mauger
Forwards - Brad Thorne
Defence - Phil Blake
What does Martin Johnson have to show that he is good enough for the job. He is a Tigers legend but that doesn't mean he is the answer. It didn't go too well with England did it?
The only England head coach since Woodward to win a 6N title.

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Re: Times Up!

Post by RagingBull » Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:39 pm

4071 wrote:
ellis9 wrote:
For all those who say that calling for Cockerill to go but have no solutions here you go:

DOR - MJ
Head Coach & Attack - Aaron Mauger
Forwards - Brad Thorne
Defence - Phil Blake
What does Martin Johnson have to show that he is good enough for the job. He is a Tigers legend but that doesn't mean he is the answer. It didn't go too well with England did it?
The only England head coach since Woodward to win a 6N title.
Yeh but didn't get them playing great rugby.

doublecarpet
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Re: Times Up!

Post by doublecarpet » Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:53 pm

BengalTiger wrote:Any and every defeat brings out the same sad bunch calling for the head of RC, If he had the budget of Toulon with 2 or 3 top class players in every position to pick from we would be odds on favorites to win the thing.
Grow up and get real, no one I can think of could have managed the injury crisis of the past two seasons and come out on top.
You have a monochrome view and have nothing constructive to say just one topic, sack RC and all will be rosy again,if the solution was as simple as you lot, we would win every game next season.
Staggering.
We've been humiliated in almost every away game this season. If you cannot see the need for change either with or without Cockers at the helm, fair play to you.

bc
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Re: Times Up!

Post by bc » Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:35 pm

Ellis 9 - "What does Martin Johnson have to show that he is good enough for the job. He is a Tigers legend but that doesn't mean he is the answer. It didn't go too well with England did it?"

Errr? 2 6N championships as opposed to 0 by Lancaster and also a better win rate!

You miss the point about DOR, he has to have the intellectual capacity to run all things rugby and being responsible for ensuring the right people are in the right posts. Cockerill has clearly demonstrated that he is not capable of doing this. MJ is a proven leader.

Big Dai
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Re: Times Up!

Post by Big Dai » Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:45 pm

Deano was sacked for less! Tigers legend & a decent past record didn't save him!

I wouldn't say sack Cockerill.............he's a good forwards coach. But DOR? Times have moved on.
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Smudge
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Re: Times Up!

Post by Smudge » Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:57 pm

We were also humiliated in a couple of home games too.
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Sajerj
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Re: Times Up!

Post by Sajerj » Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:08 pm

bc wrote:Ellis 9 - "What does Martin Johnson have to show that he is good enough for the job. He is a Tigers legend but that doesn't mean he is the answer. It didn't go too well with England did it?"

Errr? 2 6N championships as opposed to 0 by Lancaster and also a better win rate!

You miss the point about DOR, he has to have the intellectual capacity to run all things rugby and being responsible for ensuring the right people are in the right posts. Cockerill has clearly demonstrated that he is not capable of doing this. MJ is a proven leader.
Strange analysis. MJ won one 6N in 2011. In the three 6N tournaments he led England they won 3/5, 2/5 and 4/5. Lancaster has won 4/5 in each of the three 6 nations tournaments he has led England.
Lancaster also won the triple crown, something MJ didn't. Credit to MJ for winning in 2011, but lets be clear that Lancaster's win record is superior over the three championships they have been involved in.

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Re: Times Up!

Post by MurphysLaw » Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:00 pm

[quote="Sajerj"][quote="bc"]Ellis 9 - "What does Martin Johnson have to show that he is good enough for the job. He is a Tigers legend but that doesn't mean he is the answer. It didn't go too well with England did it?"

Errr? 2 6N championships as opposed to 0 by Lancaster and also a better win rate!

You miss the point about DOR, he has to have the intellectual capacity to run all things rugby and being responsible for ensuring the right people are in the right posts. Cockerill has clearly demonstrated that he is not capable of doing this. MJ is a proven leader.[/quote]

Strange analysis. MJ won one 6N in 2011. In the three 6N tournaments he led England they won 3/5, 2/5 and 4/5. Lancaster has won 4/5 in each of the three 6 nations tournaments he has led England.
Lancaster also won the triple crown, something MJ didn't. Credit to MJ for winning in 2011, but lets be clear that Lancaster's win record is superior over the three championships they have been involved in.[/quote]

Isn't it funny how the memory plays tricks? He was a great leader on the pitch, but he was a reluctant Coach. Also, I seem to recall many people critical of both MJ's management style, and his choice of coaching team. Sound familiar?

Sajerj
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Re: Times Up!

Post by Sajerj » Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:04 pm

The question i would ask about Tigers, is if hypothetically the club was injury free, and fielded the best 15 fit and fresh, would that team be able to win the European cup. Because man for man that 15 would be a strong as any other team.

I often read posters comment that the team would be a match for anybody in that situation. Personally i am not convinced. I am not sure the coaching and style maximises the talent of those players.

I think the team is coached to grind out the premiership over a long and arduous season.

SilebyTiger
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Re: Times Up!

Post by SilebyTiger » Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:25 pm

Appointing Johnno would be purely sentimental and sentiment will get you nowhere in the modern game, might as well keep Cockers if you want that appointment.

Smudge
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Re: Times Up!

Post by Smudge » Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:23 am

bc wrote :
I agree that the board have to take responsibility and, as I mentioned in the original post, I believe Simon Cohen has to consider his position. He is the link between the board and the playing side. He should have also recognised Cockerill's weaknesses and looked to mitigate.

However, there is no getting away from it that, as DOR Cockerill has been poor. He is responsible for all things rugby related:
- Coaching. He has overseen a decline in the playing ability of this club over the last 2 seasons.
- Player fitness and conditioning. The injury problems over 1 season is bad luck but over 2 that says there is something wrong.
- Academy. Not produced any non Tigers related players into first team squad since Dan Cole.
- Player retention. We are losing, Tait and Gibson and I also believe that Parling and Harrison are going to Exeter and Salvi is off to France.

Of course as a DOR Cockerill does not have to manage all those areas but he has to manage all those that are responsible for those areas and he clearly has not and is out of his depth.
Good post but you have spared the man's feelings, for probably the same reason the board have stood bye him. As far as I am concerned, the decline started at least five years ago.

Someone earlier referred to him as "the little slaphead corporal" (Big Dai?)While this is insulting in personal terms, it hits the nail as far as the
situation is concerned. He was promoted far beyond his capabilities, skills and intellect. But Tigers are a club who's stature requires at least a "Colonel" in charge.
I have said time and again on this board, we will never achieve the standards the club, and we, as fans, aspire to under him. Don't wait a day longer Peter, it's time to act.
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fleabane
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Re: Times Up!

Post by fleabane » Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:42 am

My sentiments too, Smudge.
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sapajo
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Re: Times Up!

Post by sapajo » Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:53 am

The biggest area of weakness in our team is the appallingly bad back play and the strongest is our forward play. RC is no backs coach and has admitted so but to his credit he is the forwards coach. The rot set in when the board failed to realise the importance of a quality backs coach and invest in a half decent replacement when MOC departed. If RC told the board we did not need one then he was naive and culpable in the extreme, but if he did ask for one and the board said no then he should not be carrying the can for our current free fall from grace.
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