Times Up!

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covrich
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Re: Times Up!

Post by covrich » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:38 pm

I am or have been the happy clapper optimistic type we will sort it out brand, however I am starting to realise that it may not be the case.

In the past few seasons we have taken a pasting here and there once maybe twice a season.. Unfortunatley it is happening with great regularity despite returning squad members..

Yes we pull a performance out of the bag against Toulon, bath performance was gritty and okay (although being honest I thought the ref was on our side a bit in that match) . But all in all we have been mostly poor this season.

It is like something feels rotten somewhere and we cannot stop the rot..

We are still in with a chance of something in the AP so we must try and hope we improve but to me it does feel like we need some real fresh blood behind the scenes or within the structure to really turn this around.. I hope Mauger and anyone else he brings does create some fresh culture.

WiggoTiger
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Re: Times Up!

Post by WiggoTiger » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:38 pm

ellis9 wrote:
How do we ever improve if we do not ascertain blame, and then make the necessary moves to eradicate the problems?
By finding out what the reason/s is/are as to why things are not going as we would like. That isn't blaming someone, that is finding the area/s of weakness and correcting them.

One of the reasons has been the amount of injuries we had. Do you want to blame someone for that?
Yes over training and poor management of injury recovery eg Manu, Thorn...rushing them back when not fit.
And our squad not deep enough in certain positions.
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Re: Times Up!

Post by Tigerbeat » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:43 pm

WiggoTiger wrote:
ellis9 wrote:
How do we ever improve if we do not ascertain blame, and then make the necessary moves to eradicate the problems?
By finding out what the reason/s is/are as to why things are not going as we would like. That isn't blaming someone, that is finding the area/s of weakness and correcting them.

One of the reasons has been the amount of injuries we had. Do you want to blame someone for that?
Yes over training and poor management of injury recovery eg Manu, Thorn...rushing them back when not fit.
And our squad not deep enough in certain positions.

If we could predict when a player is going to get injured that would be fantastic. The players have to be honest with injuries and I am sure that they are keen to return from long term lay offs. Manu may say that he is fit next week, we play him and he gets injured......his fault or Cockerills fault?
Players have got to take responsibility for getting warmed up properly.
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ellis9
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Re: Times Up!

Post by ellis9 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:49 pm

Oh, I didn't realise you had been on the training ground every day where you witnessed players being over trained and I didn't realise you were the Tigers physio/doctor either!

We have one of, if not the biggest squad in the league so you cannot say the depth of the squad is bad. We have had a serious amount of injuries in the centres. If we would have only had 2 injuries in the centres, we would have had adequate cover but we had Tuilagi, Allen, Bai, Smith, Hepetema, Loamanu and even Pohe injured at the same time. Tell me one other club that has 7 centres. How can you say we lack squad depth in some positions?!

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Re: Times Up!

Post by WiggoTiger » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:04 pm

ellis9 wrote:Oh, I didn't realise you had been on the training ground every day where you witnessed players being over trained and I didn't realise you were the Tigers physio/doctor either!

We have one of, if not the biggest squad in the league so you cannot say the depth of the squad is bad. We have had a serious amount of injuries in the centres. If we would have only had 2 injuries in the centres, we would have had adequate cover but we had Tuilagi, Allen, Bai, Smith, Hepetema, Loamanu and even Pohe injured at the same time. Tell me one other club that has 7 centres. How can you say we lack squad depth in some positions?!
We buy too many injured players. I didn't realise you were so passionate about backing a regime which at present is failing.
I care passionately about the club but someone has to be honest about what is happening and IMO no one is. RC says someone is back this week and then find out it is 3 months time!! Too many lies at the moment. :smt018
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Re: Times Up!

Post by ellis9 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:17 pm

We buy too many injured players. I didn't realise you were so passionate about backing a regime which at present is failing.
I care passionately about the club but someone has to be honest about what is happening and IMO no one is. RC says someone is back this week and then find out it is 3 months time!! Too many lies at the moment. :smt018
I am passionate about backing the club I support. Like I say, whether it is failing or succeeding, I will give it my full support.

I think you need to be careful saying people are lying. I don't know what player you are talking about as I didn't see the interview or statement but maybe they were due back but the injury has had complications.

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Re: Times Up!

Post by WiggoTiger » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:24 pm

I've watched this club for over 40 years and seen us go through peaks and troughs. At the moment I feel the trough is going to be like the abyss as we are miles behind clubs in fitness, game management, intensity which upsets me.
I will always support Tigers no matter what but expect better performances throughout the season.
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Re: Times Up!

Post by RagingBull » Sat Jan 24, 2015 11:14 pm

WiggoTiger wrote:
ellis9 wrote:Oh, I didn't realise you had been on the training ground every day where you witnessed players being over trained and I didn't realise you were the Tigers physio/doctor either!

We have one of, if not the biggest squad in the league so you cannot say the depth of the squad is bad. We have had a serious amount of injuries in the centres. If we would have only had 2 injuries in the centres, we would have had adequate cover but we had Tuilagi, Allen, Bai, Smith, Hepetema, Loamanu and even Pohe injured at the same time. Tell me one other club that has 7 centres. How can you say we lack squad depth in some positions?!
We buy too many injured players. I didn't realise you were so passionate about backing a regime which at present is failing.
I care passionately about the club but someone has to be honest about what is happening and IMO no one is. RC says someone is back this week and then find out it is 3 months time!! Too many lies at the moment. :smt018
How many players have we brought injured?

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Re: Times Up!

Post by Doghashadhisday » Sat Jan 24, 2015 11:24 pm

Times up - the moaning minnies should go and support teams that play the way they want. I too like some have supported the Tigers for over 40 years but am not about to start moaning everytime we lose. Some people only come on here when we lose a game or a player and even moan when we win.

I hate us losing, but when people call for sackings or pick on individual players or say things like we did not play with pride or passion is utter rubbish. We went out from the first minutes to try and attack and when you do that you risk the opposition hitting you with attacks of their own. Ulsters players came out ready to defend after last weeks drubbing. Tait, Crane and Thompstone played well. Yes we couldnt break them down but it was not from a want of trying. We are out not because of this loss or the one away to Toulon but the loss against Scarlets. Added to this even a bonus point win would not have been enough after Wasps comeback against Leinster. Did some of you really think Ulster would rollover after their hammering last week. They reacted at home the way I expect Tigers to react after a heavy defeat.

I will be there next week, excited as ever before the game that Tigers will win. If we lose then I will be there for the next game excited at the prospect of us winning and so on. :smt026 :smt031

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Re: Times Up!

Post by mol2 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 11:38 pm

Being a supporter doesn't mean you have to believe without question that all things done by the coaches are right.

Frankly I have greater faith in the Tooth Fairy than the current coaching set up.

Why - because we have a squad that is the match of pretty well most in the league playing garbage.
Over the last few (of the many seasons I have supported Tigers) I have seen good players excluded from selection and internationals warming the bench behind the coaches favourites.

I wouldn't be surprised if we signed Dan Carter he'd spend most of the season in the A-League.

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Re: Times Up!

Post by Doghashadhisday » Sat Jan 24, 2015 11:51 pm

mol2 wrote:Being a supporter doesn't mean you have to believe without question that all things done by the coaches are right.

Frankly I have greater faith in the Tooth Fairy than the current coaching set up.

Why - because we have a squad that is the match of pretty well most in the league playing garbage.
Over the last few (of the many seasons I have supported Tigers) I have seen good players excluded from selection and internationals warming the bench behind the coaches favourites.
Nobody is saying the coaches get everything right. We all make mistakes as do the players.
This squad that is a match for most has been seriously depleted for most of the season so far so much so that we did not have enough players to train against or have you conveniently forgotten that.
Pray tell which international players have been warming the bench while the coaches favourites play. Are you referring to perhaps Crane playing instead of Waldrom. If that is the case IMHO Crane is the better player.

bc
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Re: Times Up!

Post by bc » Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:22 am

Doghashadhisday wrote:Times up - the moaning minnies should go and support teams that play the way they want. I too like some have supported the Tigers for over 40 years but am not about to start moaning everytime we lose. Some people only come on here when we lose a game or a player and even moan when we win.

I hate us losing, but when people call for sackings or pick on individual players or say things like we did not play with pride or passion is utter rubbish. We went out from the first minutes to try and attack and when you do that you risk the opposition hitting you with attacks of their own. Ulsters players came out ready to defend after last weeks drubbing. Tait, Crane and Thompstone played well. Yes we couldnt break them down but it was not from a want of trying. We are out not because of this loss or the one away to Toulon but the loss against Scarlets. Added to this even a bonus point win would not have been enough after Wasps comeback against Leinster. Did some of you really think Ulster would rollover after their hammering last week. They reacted at home the way I expect Tigers to react after a heavy defeat.

I will be there next week, excited as ever before the game that Tigers will win. If we lose then I will be there for the next game excited at the prospect of us winning and so on. :smt026 :smt031
You miss the point unless of course you are happy with the one dimensional rugby that Tigers now play.

I believe we have a squad that is, on paper, as good as any in the premiership and as good as we have had for awhile. What is lacking is the quality of coaching which is very poor. We have no game other than crash ball. With defences as they are now that does not work as was shown today. Madness is doing the same thing and expecting different results - that is what our DOR has presided over.
Where is the off loading game that breaks defences, where are the dummy runners? Nowhere. If the players are not being coached and drilled in those areas then we can't expect them to do this in a game.

For all those who say that calling for Cockerill to go but have no solutions here you go:

DOR - MJ
Head Coach & Attack - Aaron Mauger
Forwards - Brad Thorne
Defence - Phil Blake

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Re: Times Up!

Post by TigerLad » Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:09 am

bc wrote:
Doghashadhisday wrote:Times up - the moaning minnies should go and support teams that play the way they want. I too like some have supported the Tigers for over 40 years but am not about to start moaning everytime we lose. Some people only come on here when we lose a game or a player and even moan when we win.

I hate us losing, but when people call for sackings or pick on individual players or say things like we did not play with pride or passion is utter rubbish. We went out from the first minutes to try and attack and when you do that you risk the opposition hitting you with attacks of their own. Ulsters players came out ready to defend after last weeks drubbing. Tait, Crane and Thompstone played well. Yes we couldnt break them down but it was not from a want of trying. We are out not because of this loss or the one away to Toulon but the loss against Scarlets. Added to this even a bonus point win would not have been enough after Wasps comeback against Leinster. Did some of you really think Ulster would rollover after their hammering last week. They reacted at home the way I expect Tigers to react after a heavy defeat.

I will be there next week, excited as ever before the game that Tigers will win. If we lose then I will be there for the next game excited at the prospect of us winning and so on. :smt026 :smt031
You miss the point unless of course you are happy with the one dimensional rugby that Tigers now play.

I believe we have a squad that is, on paper, as good as any in the premiership and as good as we have had for awhile. What is lacking is the quality of coaching which is very poor. We have no game other than crash ball. With defences as they are now that does not work as was shown today. Madness is doing the same thing and expecting different results - that is what our DOR has presided over.
Where is the off loading game that breaks defences, where are the dummy runners? Nowhere. If the players are not being coached and drilled in those areas then we can't expect them to do this in a game.

For all those who say that calling for Cockerill to go but have no solutions here you go:

DOR - MJ
Head Coach & Attack - Aaron Mauger
Forwards - Brad Thorne
Defence - Phil Blake
Surely by your trigger finger logic Blake should be sacked aswell? We've conceded 3 tries a game since Toulon away and that's hardly a good effort. But regarding Cockers how can you seriously just disregard all of his success at this club? Our forwards are some of the best in the business. Granted we haven't been up to scratch recently and what has Cockers done? He's brought in Blake and Mauger fully aware that he will have less control as a result. That tells me that he will do what's best for this club even if it means he has a smaller part. Judge at the end of the season, not after a loss in January.

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Re: Times Up!

Post by Isambard » Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:45 am

Ellis it is irrelevant who should replace him and unfair on the poster to ask him/her to suggest this. There are people who recruit others for a living and whose role is to be aware of the skills and availability of potential managers/coaches.

We are not good enough I am sick of writing and reading. Not even the quarters this year, like Munster. Sometimes you see a club growing, becoming stronger, improving the win/loss ratio and then achieving. Since the RWC 2003 boys left what has there been? I have my ticket for the Euro finals so I cant be a doom monger. Went in 2014 and 2013. I must be an optimist.

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Re: Times Up!

Post by Ian Cant » Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:30 am

Richard Cockerill has to stay.As for Crane-didn't anyone else see his shift yesterday or last week v Scarlets-immense and it is not Crane's fault that when he makes good yardage(that ages me!) no one there to support. He never lets us down so get off his back and just watch what he does in a game.
With Saints getting hammered at home yesterday next week will be a game to savour.Both teams wanting to put things right. Can't wait. Move on, support the team, as even Johnno's Tigers'team had some shockers-in fact quite a few-especially away from home, as personally witnessed,some in finals too,Sale,Wasps x2,Ospreys! LET'S ALL GET BEHIND THE TEAM NEXT WEEK because to be honest if anyone wants to talk about the team not performing-well we too as fans have been very quiet this season! Even the Wasps crowd yesterday were immense when the team was well behind. TIGERS, TIGERS.

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