Saints let off.

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physiodan
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Saints let off.

Post by physiodan » Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:05 pm

Controversial as the far was yesterday, Saints were very much let off by JP Doyle.

Some may ask why as Hartley saw red yet again but here is my one thought. I would rather have seen a yellow card in the scrum than Doyle going straight for a penalty try. Doyle has to be sure that we would have scored a try without Saints cheating and I personally don't think that was the case on the second scrum. Instead, the penalty try should have been a yellow and following that, a PT if the same had happened. If such action had happened the game would have been dead and buried as scrum time would equal penalty after penalty...

Let off they were but boy did they play well with 14!

Manu please get fit!

WiggoTiger
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Re: Saints let off.

Post by WiggoTiger » Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:10 pm

Lets face it we know the JP Doyle style of refereeing. Do a major decision but then miss a lot of bread and butter infringements.
TBH I was already resigned to a loss but was quite upbeat at H-T, but we seem to fail to create overlaps which Saints seemed to do with ease even with 1 player less.
Lets hope we have some fireworks at training that will kick start the remainder of the season to play a more attacking style in the backs.
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sapajo
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Re: Saints let off.

Post by sapajo » Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:15 pm

WiggoTiger wrote:Lets hope we have some fireworks at training that will kick start the remainder of the season to play a more attacking style in the backs.
Please save it for the matchday pitch :smt023
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ginge
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Re: Saints let off.

Post by ginge » Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:58 am

TBH JP Doyle wanted to give a Yellow, it was the TMO who had the necessaries to award a Red. This is why refs should allow TMOs to make a decision when asked and not refer a decision and then take it upon themselves to adjudicate at pitch side. The TMO is in not in the heat of the event, they can use their best judgment and not feel swayed by the crowd or any previous decisions that may have been dubious.

ginge
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Re: Saints let off.

Post by ginge » Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:59 am

TBH JP Doyle wanted to give a Yellow, it was the TMO who had the necessaries to award a Red. This is why refs should allow TMOs to make a decision when asked and not refer a decision and then take it upon themselves to adjudicate at pitch side. The TMO is in not in the heat of the event, they can use their best judgment and not feel swayed by the crowd or any previous decisions that may have been dubious.

Rykard
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Re: Saints let off.

Post by Rykard » Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:14 am

i think JP needs an anatomy lesson, how he thought it was a forearm to the face is beyond me....

thought the high tackles for us were a touch harsh, there seemed to be far worse going on against us..
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Tiger_in_Birmingham
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Re: Saints let off.

Post by Tiger_in_Birmingham » Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:22 am

physiodan wrote:Saints were very much let off by JP Doyle.
I don't think so - I thought Doyle (thanks to the TMO) got most of the decisions right. There's never going to be an occasion where you agree with everything the referee says but it was one of his better games.

Saints were let off by very good fitness to last so long a man down, slick handling, not panicking once the overlap was created, and every player (front row included) passing out of the tackle.

There was a great bit of skill from Lawes that was very Murphy-esque, despite drawing two defenders and both of them wrapping him he managed to get the offload away to the man outside. Deftest play all game and should have drawn more attention from the pundits.

mol2
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Re: Saints let off.

Post by mol2 » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:25 am

I struggle to see why Doyle so obviously only wanted to issue a yellow. It was a straight red and likely lengthy ban given his previous record.

I think the Croft card was his way of evening things up. I suspect the video ref would not have recommended yellow for that. A bit high, not with intent so just about a penalty and nothing more.

I normally rate Doyle but he had a poor game.

tigerburnie
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Re: Saints let off.

Post by tigerburnie » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:28 am

I think JP Doyle is the best of the bunch, he had a reasonable game and did his best to "even things up", can't blame him for our own failings.
There's a bit of a party atmosphere around Bath this afternoon - but you wouldn't get that at Leicester if we finished ninth." Richard Cockerill 7/5/16

Northeast Tiger
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Re: Saints let off.

Post by Northeast Tiger » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:40 am

ginge wrote:TBH JP Doyle wanted to give a Yellow, it was the TMO who had the necessaries to award a Red. This is why refs should allow TMOs to make a decision when asked and not refer a decision and then take it upon themselves to adjudicate at pitch side. The TMO is in not in the heat of the event, they can use their best judgment and not feel swayed by the crowd or any previous decisions that may have been dubious.
Obviously you didn't watch the Premiership final last year Ginge.

Graham Hughes the T.M.O over ruled the ref, giving a try to Stains when the ball was clearly held up over the line.

J.P. Doyle also awarded a match winning try to Fazlet and the Sorries, but for Hughes to call in his ear and disallow it when he wasn't asked.

If anyone was taken over by the heat of the moment it was The T.M.O.

physiodan
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Re: Saints let off.

Post by physiodan » Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:58 am

Tiger_in_Birmingham wrote:
physiodan wrote:Saints were very much let off by JP Doyle.
I don't think so - I thought Doyle (thanks to the TMO) got most of the decisions right. There's never going to be an occasion where you agree with everything the referee says but it was one of his better games.

Saints were let off by very good fitness to last so long a man down, slick handling, not panicking once the overlap was created, and every player (front row included) passing out of the tackle.

There was a great bit of skill from Lawes that was very Murphy-esque, despite drawing two defenders and both of them wrapping him he managed to get the offload away to the man outside. Deftest play all game and should have drawn more attention from the pundits.
What I am saying is that most refs before awarding a penalty try which by all accounts was not over the line, so not a certain try would have awarded a yellow card against the defending scrum for a professional foul. Doyle did not do this as he had just sent a player off and knew that if he had he would have given us such an advantage. The number of scrum penalties by Saints was very high and needed reprimanding.

Saints however showed what a great team they have become and that Haywood is by far the better player and if Hartley gets a deserved vacation from the game then he should have to fight for his position.

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Re: Saints let off.

Post by Norfolk & Goode » Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:20 pm

physiodan wrote:I would rather have seen a yellow card in the scrum than Doyle going straight for a penalty try.
That would've been weak reffing. When a team defending a scrum on their own 5m give away 3 penalties in succession whilst going backwards, it's more than reasonable for a ref to award a penalty try as without the offences being committed, the scrum would've certainly been driven backwards (legally) over the line.

Right call.

However, Crofty's yellow was harsh as the time gap between his last high tackle was fairly considerable, and it was only a slight 'high' rather than a washing line, and no where near the try line.

Saints were not let off, they worked hard and deserved the win on the day!

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Re: Saints let off.

Post by Doghashadhisday » Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:23 pm

Saints let off! - so that's what all the stink is about :smt003 It's ok I will get my coat!

Ian Cant
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Re: Saints let off.

Post by Ian Cant » Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:41 pm

As I have said elsewhere on the forum, well done Saints, they were far more positive once they went to 14.
BUT, what happened just before the Dylan Hartley elbow has been forgotten-Parling punched in the face- I thought he went down too easily until I saw blood over his face- but it was a punch so Saints can count themselves lucky it was only one off. A Saints fan remarked near us, ' Parling you cheat but this could be two off, for us!' Once a home player is red carded so early the away team has to be whiter than white so to be fair to Tigers they didn't get embroiled in fisty cuffs.
Now for Sale which will be a similar game!! This will be the acid test.

sapajo
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Re: Saints let off.

Post by sapajo » Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:17 pm

Ian Cant wrote:As I have said elsewhere on the forum, well done Saints, they were far more positive once they went to 14.
BUT, what happened just before the Dylan Hartley elbow has been forgotten-Parling punched in the face- I thought he went down too easily until I saw blood over his face- but it was a punch so Saints can count themselves lucky it was only one off. A Saints fan remarked near us, ' Parling you cheat but this could be two off, for us!' Once a home player is red carded so early the away team has to be whiter than white so to be fair to Tigers they didn't get embroiled in fisty cuffs.
Now for Sale which will be a similar game!! This will be the acid test.
Will the alleged puncher get cited? Ah let me think Noooooooo
Without hope we are nothing, keep the faith, a Tiger for eternity

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