Sarries 23 this week?

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Norfolk & Goode
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Re: Sarries 23 this week?

Post by Norfolk & Goode » Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:08 am

covrich wrote:Balmain for England??? Steady on
Agree about the caution Covrich, but the Saxon squad could do with his skills rather than the penalty conceding Kyle Sinckler who is 2 years his junior. Balmain is consistent and effective every game and has been so all season. Time for another step up IMHO.

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Re: Sarries 23 this week?

Post by RagingBull » Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:10 am

Balmain shouldn't be anywhere near England till imo at the very least the 6N 2016 he is only 23, and he needs to learn more imo. And England is not the right setup at the moment for that.

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Re: Sarries 23 this week?

Post by ourla » Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:46 am

If ever a game deserved to be a draw it was probably that one. Two teams even stevens in almost all aspects. The rain of course caused a few fumbles which could have led to tries but both teams covered their errors well. Things have certainly tightened up at the top of the table and with us and Gloucester playing the bottom two next things could bunch up even more.

Some tasty looking fixtures over the next two weeks which could make or break the season for the likes of Quins, Sale, Wasps.

The Welsh match gives us an opportunity not to take things lightly but to just cut loose a little bit and also to use the full 23 before we hit some bigger tests. Wasps at home I really would expect a win. Looking ahead to the Saints game I don't think we have anything to lose. Saints will have had an easy two weeks against Treviso whilst we will be battered and bruised from Toulon. They will be big favourites. But if we can maintain our defensive improvement.....
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Grumpy of Crumbie
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Re: Sarries 23 this week?

Post by Grumpy of Crumbie » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:37 pm

I may have missed it but I can't see anyone questioning the option to go for 3 points and the draw with the final kick. I accept it's good not to lose but the succesful kick gave us an extra point!

Given our league position and the opportunity we had to pinch a win should Tigers have gone for the catch and drive? There was time on the clock, lineout had been solid all game and if Sarries were not 'honest' in their defence we could have had another opportunity to kick for the draw.

Worth the risk for a potential 4 points? Would Tigers a couple of seasons ago have taken this option?

There's no right or wrong and I wouldn't have wanted to be in Brad Thorn's shoes, but I'd be interested in people's views.
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Re: Sarries 23 this week?

Post by The Boy Dave » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:44 pm

Beg to differ - their loose head drove in and up under Balmain - rather than the latter popping up under the strain. When he pushed straight in the previous scrums he came off second best to Balmain who was still fresh.
Beg to differ - their loose head drove in and up under Balmain - rather than the latter popping up under the strain. When he pushed straight in the previous scrums he came off second best to Balmain who was still fresh.
Some looseheads do turn in a lot and I would like to see more get penalised but you are mistaken on this occasion, Balamain was under huge pressure at that final scrum and folded in causing their prop to turn in, instead of collapsing the pressure ws so strong he got taken off his feet.
I can tell you that no prop will ever allow himself to be taken off his feet like that, not ever, unless he is helpless.
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Re: Sarries 23 this week?

Post by ourla » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:05 pm

Grumpy of Crumbie wrote:I may have missed it but I can't see anyone questioning the option to go for 3 points and the draw with the final kick. I accept it's good not to lose but the succesful kick gave us an extra point!

Given our league position and the opportunity we had to pinch a win should Tigers have gone for the catch and drive? There was time on the clock, lineout had been solid all game and if Sarries were not 'honest' in their defence we could have had another opportunity to kick for the draw.

Worth the risk for a potential 4 points? Would Tigers a couple of seasons ago have taken this option?

There's no right or wrong and I wouldn't have wanted to be in Brad Thorn's shoes, but I'd be interested in people's views.
For me there is no debate. Aside from one kick Williams had been kicking well so you looking at a 95% chance we get the two points. In the context of the match where Saracens looked solid defensively, we had some tired bodies out there. A fourth choice hooker throwing in, I think you are looking at best a 10% chance of us getting a try. Add to that we get to say we held one of the favourites for the title to a draw, not being beaten at home, good confidence boost for Williams, I think it was an easy percentage call with a couple of extra upsides. I am sure like everyone else it crossed my mind when the ref blew but then I had a word with myself :smt002
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Re: Sarries 23 this week?

Post by drc_007 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:19 pm

The Boy Dave wrote:
Beg to differ - their loose head drove in and up under Balmain - rather than the latter popping up under the strain. When he pushed straight in the previous scrums he came off second best to Balmain who was still fresh.
Beg to differ - their loose head drove in and up under Balmain - rather than the latter popping up under the strain. When he pushed straight in the previous scrums he came off second best to Balmain who was still fresh.
Some looseheads do turn in a lot and I would like to see more get penalised but you are mistaken on this occasion, Balamain was under huge pressure at that final scrum and folded in causing their prop to turn in, instead of collapsing the pressure ws so strong he got taken off his feet.
I can tell you that no prop will ever allow himself to be taken off his feet like that, not ever, unless he is helpless.
I thought their loose head lifted Balmain, which is illegal
Law 20.8 (i) Lifting or forcing an opponent up. A front row player must not lift an opponent in the air, or force an opponent upwards out of the scrum, either when the ball is being thrown in or afterwards. This is dangerous play.
Sanction: Penalty kick

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Re: Sarries 23 this week?

Post by Tiger_in_Birmingham » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:27 pm

The Boy Dave wrote:Some looseheads do turn in a lot and I would like to see more get penalised but you are mistaken on this occasion, Balamain was under huge pressure at that final scrum and folded in causing their prop to turn in, instead of collapsing the pressure ws so strong he got taken off his feet.
I can tell you that no prop will ever allow himself to be taken off his feet like that, not ever, unless he is helpless.
As a tight-head folding in you dip the outside shoulder to split hooker and loose-head so that the loose-head can't get under you. Turning in and staying up may put pressure on the hooker and force him to pop but it gives the loose-head license to get under and up.

Also as the ball is being fed in the Sarries loose-head dips his outside shoulder to get lower & under Balmain and starts to come across immediately - the dipped shoulder is an attempt to hide that the shoulders aren't square

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Re: Sarries 23 this week?

Post by The Boy Dave » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:44 pm

thought their loose head lifted Balmain, which is illegal
Law 20.8 (i) Lifting or forcing an opponent up. A front row player must not lift an opponent in the air, or force an opponent upwards out of the scrum, either when the ball is being thrown in or afterwards. This is dangerous play.
Sanction: Penalty kick
Balmain came up under pressure, he was not lifted, he did not want to go backwards and had nowhere else to go, tried to fold in and got taken right off his feet.
It's a little too one eyed on here at times!
As a tight-head folding in you dip the outside shoulder to split hooker and loose-head so that the loose-head can't get under you. Turning in and staying up may put pressure on the hooker and force him to pop but it gives the loose-head license to get under and up.

Also as the ball is being fed in the Sarries loose-head dips his outside shoulder to get lower & under Balmain and starts to come across immediately - the dipped shoulder is an attempt to hide that the shoulders aren't square
Yes but you can't split the hooker if you are under pressure, as with most props you are taught to collapse if under pressure and play for a reset, on this occasion Balmain got into real trouble with a tiny tiring hooker next to him and lost any control of the situation.
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Re: Sarries 23 this week?

Post by Tigerref » Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:15 pm

That's better a bit of fight and dog. I think all us fans can accept the defeats - but when we roll over and don't fight we go spare.

One Tiger's front rower looked like a 40 cap veteran and it wasn't Cole.

That said I don't think he's ready for a call up yet - would like to see him in the 'extended squad' in 6 nations and then let's see.

There's a huge difference between starting and coming on after an hour against a tiring opponent.

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Re: Sarries 23 this week?

Post by tigerburnie » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:25 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/30081649
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Re: Sarries 23 this week?

Post by smell.com » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:13 pm

well nobody has mentioned the unsporting manner of BIG jim while owen took that last kick , well done lad .

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Re: Sarries 23 this week?

Post by WiggoTiger » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:03 pm

smell.com wrote:well nobody has mentioned the unsporting manner of BIG jim while owen took that last kick , well done lad .
Lets be honest BIG JIM is just an unsporting thug...IMHO!!
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Re: Sarries 23 this week?

Post by sapajo » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:13 pm

WiggoTiger wrote:
smell.com wrote:well nobody has mentioned the unsporting manner of BIG jim while owen took that last kick , well done lad .
Lets be honest BIG JIM is just an unsporting thug...IMHO!!
Is he really now that good :smt017
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Re: Sarries 23 this week?

Post by G.K » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:44 pm

What did he do - I missed it?
Nowadays referees decide matches, players by how much.

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