Congratulations RWC for ticket farce

[Grumpy of Crumbie]

I know its different and I'm not suggesting its an answer but:

How many tickets has anyone seen on the 'black market' for Glastonbury??

[JackFlashJonny]

One of my friends has gone to Glastonbury on my ticket when I couldn't go and another went on my little brothers does that count

[tjs10]

I know its different and I'm not suggesting its an answer but:

How many tickets has anyone seen on the 'black market' for Glastonbury??

I've seen them before and also know people who have bought (and successfully used) them as well.


As with the Ryder Cup, I come back to my earlier points. They are both single site predominantly "unallocated location" events unlike the mulitsite, multinational, entirely allocated seating, weeks-long RWC that would be logistically far more complicated.

[tjs10]

The supposedly foolproof Ryder Cup ticket system still saw tickets being made available via Stubhub & Viagogo at inflated prices:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/golf/r ... -1000.html

[JackFlashJonny]

Is one of the prerequisites for being a moderator the relentless drive to prove yourself right and lord it over non moderators

Seriously though it is clear there are ways round these systems however the system being in place to begin with is a huge deterrent...That being said they obviously took the decision that to put this into place wasn't either financially viable (clearly didn't want to pay for it) or logistically impossible as mentioned many venues across multiple sites etc etc

Essentially I just feel gutted at the prices I will probably end up paying to see my team in the World cup..

[tjs10]

For the record, I'm not a moderator here anymore and probably haven't been for well over 5 years. They've just never taken away the avatar.

I agree that the prices you may end up paying are high but I don't see how a different system would have helped as in all honesty you probably wouldn't have had a ticket at all by another method & no option to buy one on the black market. Only a small minority of the tickets are being resold through touts as most ballot winners will quite rightly use them as intended.

A perfect ticket system would have given you VERY SLIGHTLY more chance of being successful in the ballot but NO chance of getting one via other means.

[JackFlashJonny]

Are you a politician as you swerved the point with textbook style and then focused on the fact you aren't a moderator here anymore furthermore blaming 'them' for not taking away the avatar..This has nothing to do with the prerequisites for being a moderator in the first place?

[tjs10]

If that was the requirement to be a moderator, BillW would be the uber mod

for this site!

I was invited to be a mod when the forum was relaunched about 10 years ago. I was asked to do the role because the communications manager at the time trusted me to be fair and responsible. I have no idea of the criteria the club use now as there have been 3 mods since me and the staff at the club have changed too.

[Rizzo]

If tjs wants the avater taken away, it can be arranged

I can't say what the Club's actual criteria are for appointing moderators, I recall that when Iain resigned as a moderator, the club asked people to volunteer and to give any experience they'd had in a similar role. I offered my services and the information that I had been (still was at that time) a moderator on a rock music forum and I'd also run a messageboard for a friend's tribute band. The moderator role was offered, I accepted.

And with that explanation, can we please now revert to and stick to the topic of discussing the RWC and ticket issues etc.

[biffer]

I know its different and I'm not suggesting its an answer but:

How many tickets has anyone seen on the 'black market' for Glastonbury??

I've seen them before and also know people who have bought (and successfully used) them as well.


As with the Ryder Cup, I come back to my earlier points. They are both single site predominantly "unallocated location" events unlike the mulitsite, multinational, entirely allocated seating, weeks-long RWC that would be logistically far more complicated.

What, exactly, makes doing this for an allocated seating event more difficult? There are multiple football clubs which run ticket systems for fans for away games, which mean they're dealing with different stadiums every other week, and doing it on much shorter timescales than this kind of event.

You're desperately clinging on to an excuse which has no grounding in reality, in order to maintain the system as is. It's almost as if you want people to be able to tout.

And wrt hospitality, I've never seen touts trying to sell hospitality tickets, it doesn't make any sense to do that as there's not much margin in it for them.

Lastly, the idea of an online auction for a small percentage of fans who are mental enough to remortgage their home for a ticket also helps to remove touting by offering an official way to pay over the odds, with the added bonus of keeping the money in the game.

[tjs10]

Doing it for an allocated seating event makes complicated ticket application processes less desireable for customers, thereby reducing demand and potentially alienating larger numbers of genuine fans.
The fact that the only 2 events anyone has so far offered where photo ID is required are for "unallocated space" events supports this rationale.
Your football club away ticket argument misses the point. The clubs you talk about don't adopt the photo ID requirement you are proposing for a start!

No, I don't support touting (as I have stated previously) so please don't try to imply otherwise. I am not "desperately clinging to an excuse". I am simply stating the practicalities and some of the reasons why your proposal has never been widely adopted.

If you've never seen touts reselling hospitality tickets then you haven't looked very hard! Hospitality tickets are not passed to the touts by the people who BOUGHT the hospitality originally, but more commonly they are passed to the touts by those to whom the hospitality was originally OFFERED. I am aware of a number of occasions across different sports where someone has chosen to sell on their hospitality ticket to a tout and taken the money (at well below package price) rather than use the package themselves. usually this is for an event they are not interested in or where the hospitality is off-site and can still be accessed independent of the match ticket.

I don't understand your final point.
Are you suggesting that there should be some sort of official website/auction where the organisers can re-sell tickets at well above face value to discourage touts?!? How would that work? Why do you think that would discourage touts if the proceeds were retained by the organisers? Touts feed off the greed of individuals with tickets willing to sell for inflated prices. I don't see how an auction website where profits do not go to the individual will discourage this?


At the end of the day, I personally would have no issue with photo ID tickets as long as it didn't increase the face value of my ticket in the first place.

I don't sell to touts & I don't buy from touts so I would be largely unaffected. However, if the people I planned to go to the games with couldn't make the event in a year's time, I (or they) would be stuck with a ticket that could no longer be used by another friend or family member. I'm sure that would discourage a number of people from applying and would anger a number of successful applicants in the future, especially at the face value prices that RWC2015 are charging for match tickets.

[G.K]

If tjs wants the avater taken away, it can be arranged

Yes please defrock him...

[biffer]

Doing it for an allocated seating event makes complicated ticket application processes less desireable for customers, thereby reducing demand and potentially alienating larger numbers of genuine fans.
The fact that the only 2 events anyone has so far offered where photo ID is required are for "unallocated space" events supports this rationale.
Your football club away ticket argument misses the point. The clubs you talk about don't adopt the photo ID requirement you are proposing for a start!

No, I don't support touting (as I have stated previously) so please don't try to imply otherwise. I am not "desperately clinging to an excuse". I am simply stating the practicalities and some of the reasons why your proposal has never been widely adopted.

If you've never seen touts reselling hospitality tickets then you haven't looked very hard! Hospitality tickets are not passed to the touts by the people who BOUGHT the hospitality originally, but more commonly they are passed to the touts by those to whom the hospitality was originally OFFERED. I am aware of a number of occasions across different sports where someone has chosen to sell on their hospitality ticket to a tout and taken the money (at well below package price) rather than use the package themselves. usually this is for an event they are not interested in or where the hospitality is off-site and can still be accessed independent of the match ticket.

I don't understand your final point.
Are you suggesting that there should be some sort of official website/auction where the organisers can re-sell tickets at well above face value to discourage touts?!? How would that work? Why do you think that would discourage touts if the proceeds were retained by the organisers? Touts feed off the greed of individuals with tickets willing to sell for inflated prices. I don't see how an auction website where profits do not go to the individual will discourage this?


At the end of the day, I personally would have no issue with photo ID tickets as long as it didn't increase the face value of my ticket in the first place.

I don't sell to touts & I don't buy from touts so I would be largely unaffected. However, if the people I planned to go to the games with couldn't make the event in a year's time, I (or they) would be stuck with a ticket that could no longer be used by another friend or family member. I'm sure that would discourage a number of people from applying and would anger a number of successful applicants in the future, especially at the face value prices that RWC2015 are charging for match tickets.

The football argument is valid - many clubs require a membership scheme, which includes photo id, in order to purchase away tickets through the club. I have a photo membership card for Scotland away games without which I can't buy tickets, for allocated seating, at different stadiums every time, in a group, with other people who have to be registered in the same way. Same procedure applies for home games, have to be a member, photo is on the card, different numbers of people applying together to sit together. Whether the photo is on the ticket is a different matter and relevant to printing, which isn't the objection you've raised.

You've still not explained what makes it more complicated, so complicated that it's not realistic or practical in rugby.

[tjs10]

It is more complicated for a number of reasons including, but not limited to:

The increased admin in processing the photos and adding them to the tickets. (Your football scenario can't work for the RWC when there is no pre-existing "membership". A separate card wouldn't stop touts. It would (at best) limit them to selling tickets to other fans who already had membership cards from other RWC ticket applications.

The increased admin of checking photos at matches. Automated turnstiles (such as at WR) wouldn't be able to check photos, making the security feature worthless. Recruiting additional staff to do this also adds cost.

Additional security/admin process also discourages some supporters as well as the touts, reducing demand and increasing animosity as a result.

As said previously, it also only targets the "regular" fan and doesn't work as well on the hospitality tickets, nor the sponsor or team/officials tickets which are common tout channels.

As an allocation of tickets are also distributed to the overseas unions in advance for them to issue, the system would also have to take account of this.

There are numerous other reasons why it is impractical to introduce.

If it was as uncomplicated as you seem to be claiming, it would have been introduce by now. Even in a sport where money is huge and touting is actually illegal (ie football) they haven't even gone down the route of photos on tickets yet, and touting still happens.



And G.K, I finally managed to remove the Mod avatar myself. Took me a while but I eventually found out how to do it.

[h's dad]

The football argument is valid - many clubs require a membership scheme, which includes photo id, in order to purchase away tickets through the club. I have a photo membership card for Scotland away games without which I can't buy tickets, for allocated seating, at different stadiums every time, in a group, with other people who have to be registered in the same way. Same procedure applies for home games, have to be a member, photo is on the card, different numbers of people applying together to sit together. Whether the photo is on the ticket is a different matter and relevant to printing, which isn't the objection you've raised.

You've still not explained what makes it more complicated, so complicated that it's not realistic or practical in rugby.

Sounds like a real pain of a system for people who just want a few tickets for a one-off event but fair enough if it stops touting. Does it?