The game has moved on

[ourla]

New thread. I quote Noddy555 among many others: "Over the last 2 seasons the game has moved on and we are for some reason or other finding it difficult to move on with it".

Can people please explain how they think the game has "moved on" and we haven't?

I think other teams have got better. I don't think we have got worse but even if we had these things do not equate to the game moving on. That would imply teams have fundamentally changed the way they play and we haven't. So, in what way have teams changed how they play and we haven't?

[fentiger]

Saracens have certainly changed how they play in the last season or so, and that is not just due to them having plastic pitch.
Unfortunately, because of many apparent reasons that can be quoted, our game 'plan' has not developed sufficiently to keep us at the level of, or better still, ahead of the opposition.

[Smurphswillgetya]

Maybe we need to get relegated to re-invent ourselves like Quins and Saints did.

[ourla]

Saracens have certainly changed how they play in the last season or so, and that is not just due to them having plastic pitch.

1) Well, people have said the game has moved on, as in there has been a shift across the board?
2) In what way have they changed?
3) How many trophies did they win last year?

Unfortunately, because of many apparent reasons that can be quoted, our game 'plan' has not developed sufficiently to keep us at the level of, or better still, ahead of the opposition.

What specifically in our game plan is lacking?

[Rykard]

I posted on another thread, that I thought it went down when our top analyst left. If we are not analysing the other teams' deficiencies well enough then any game plan will be flawed - discuss

[Tigerbeat]

Who was the analyst that left?

[Tigerbeat]

What is the name of the analyst that left?

[kend]

I'm not sure the question makes sense, as it implies there is a homogeneous way of playing that Tigers need to move toward. There isn't; Saracens are different to Harlequins who are different to Saints and so on.

It just isn't possible to be all things simultaneously; you can't press the 'Saints' button for the first half and the 'Sarries' button for the second. The styles of play need different coaching and different personnel.

Perhaps Tigers game is a bit less dynamic than Quins or has fewer broken field runners than Bath. But which team scored more tries than either of those last season? The narrative doesn't necessarily match the reality.

As a coach, you may have an vision of how you want the side to play, but you are constrained by the players you have (or can reasonably get). The Tigers of recent times do seem to be able to evolve while staying at the top of the pile. It's a trait to be treasured rather than condemned. To change in a revolutionary way is painful and risky. Quins didn't develop their approach overnight - as another poster pointed out, it took a relegation and the cathartic experience of bloodgate. Be careful what you wish for?

[tigerburnie]

We are talking " the last two years"? Well less than two years ago we were champions and last year was the first time in a decade that we didn't make the premiership final. Now call me what you like, but until another team gets to ten finals in a row and wins half of them. I still say we are the most consistent and successful team in the land bar none.
I note some more players have been unfortunate and been injured playing in the Championship, Louw being the latest. Now whose at fault there? do the fans start screaming foul play, or do they think "I hope he soon recovers"
Knee jerk re actions usually come from jerks who are weak at the knee, what is required here is a bit of back bone. Those of us who have put our selves up, have to accept we might get knocked down, you don't cry, we look and learn. Let us see if we learn from this and rise above it all as Tigers always have in the past. Be it rugby or even for a promotion at work, you put yourself and you have to be prepared to deal with failing. Football frequently follows the knee jerk "sack the boss" after a couple of games, "get someone better in", does it work? I can't think of instant success, Man United anyone? losing to Leicester City? sack the boss..........

[Bowden Tiger]

We'll put TigerBurnie.
It's not great at the moment, but we will get better! It is a long season and injured players will come back.

[fortysix]

Part of the problem why we lost to Bath is very very simple to explain, and has been posted on here before...........

RC and the Management know, that if we win 90% of our home ties and 50% of the away ones, we will hit the play offs.

So some away matches are automatically not on the must win list for the league---------Bath Quims Sarries Waspies..

Paradoxically, and I could be very wrong, I dont think Northampton Saints away is a ''gimme'' !!

So this could easily explain why none of our players looked up for it on Saturday at Bath-----no point, if they read into it that RC doesnt expect anything............

Another very salient fact is that the human body can only soak up so much damage , as everyone now is miles harder, fitter, stronger, so in 2014, any commonsensical coach is going to severely reduce ''body damage possibility'' in training. Maybe this is why our players are always wounded.

If you were a Tigers player, and you read about conditioning and nutritional requirements/ pharmaceutical grade manufactured supplements--not the UK High Street/ Mail Order rubbish----- for a professional athlete, you would soon now realise that degeneratibve diseases, all 75 of them , are manifestly more likely to attack your body in later life, depending on the individuals genetic make up, if you have been subjected to repeated body impact resulting in damage, light or heavy......

[bigphil]

There has been a lot of comment about this match analyst who supposedly left a couple of years ago I too would be interested in knowing who this is as Simon Barbour has been the Tigers "Performance Analyst" since 2007.

Thanks

Phil

[voice of the crumbie]

Who was the analyst that left?

I believe the reference may be to former Tigers scrum half Jamie Hamilton who was analyst at Tigers. Although he did leave some time ago.

From the News Archive 25 April 2008:

Former Tigers player and current specialist scrum-half coach and video analyst Jamie Hamilton is set to move to New Zealand to begin a new life with the Canterbury Crusaders.
Hamilton will work for the most successful side in the history of Super rugby as he moves to the Southern Hemisphere for what he describes as a 'family decision'.

"It is a massive step taking my whole family over to the other side of the world, but we are really looking forward to it," says the double-Heineken Cup winner.

"I've lived in Christchurch before and I've always fancied emigrating there with a young family. I played for a team called Linwood, who are based in Christchurch, during 1994 and '95 and my sister emigrated to Australia two years ago. This wasn't a spur of the moment decision. It's something we have been talking about doing for a long time.

"It's a great lifestyle out there and that's part of the reason why I want to go. There's snowboarding and wakeboarding all within a short drive and my wife is really excited too. I have a two-year-old and a seven-month old child and it will be a big change for all of us."

Next Sunday's clash with Newcastle will be Hamilton's last with Tigers, although he is likely to return as a spectator for the game against the Classic All Blacks at Welford Road on May 25.

If it's not Jamie then I can't think who people could be referring to.

[voice of the crumbie]

So the game has moved on and Tigers have been left behind. Let's look at the record since Cockers has been Head Coach / DOR.

2009

Tigers win a second Premiership title in three years with a 10-9 defeat of London Irish in the Twickenham final.

The club's fifth Heineken Cup Final appearance ends in a 16-13 defeat by Leinster in Edinburgh.

2010

The Guinness Premiership title is retained - the club's third in four years and ninth in total - in a thrilling 33-27 win over Saracens at Twickenham which is sealed with a late try from Dan Hipkiss and a vital lineout steal from Geoff Parling.

2011

Saracens come between Tigers and a hat-trick of Premiership titles. In a repeat of the 2010 final, Sarries win 22-18 at Twickenham and Tigers finish the season without a trophy.

2012

Tigers win the Anglo-Welsh LV= Cup Final with a victory over Northampton Saints and make it to an eighth successive Premiership Final at Twickenham but miss out on a league-and-cup double as Harlequins lift the silverware for the first time.

2013

Tigers lift a record 10th Premiership title with a victory over local rivals Northampton Saints at Twickenham. It is the club's ninth successive appearance in the Final and skipper Geordan Murphy ends 16 years as a Tigers player by lifting the silverware.

Six of the players who started the Final victory - five of them Tigers Academy graduates - then join the British & Irish Lions squad for a victorious tour to Australia.

2014

Tigers, despite crippling injury list, reach play off semis and Heineken QF's. A relative off year for us.

Need I say more? Which other Premiership club can match this record?

[ourla]

I'm not sure the question makes sense, as it implies there is a homogeneous way of playing that Tigers need to move toward. There isn't; Saracens are different to Harlequins who are different to Saints and so on.

It just isn't possible to be all things simultaneously; you can't press the 'Saints' button for the first half and the 'Sarries' button for the second. The styles of play need different coaching and different personnel.

Perhaps Tigers game is a bit less dynamic than Quins or has fewer broken field runners than Bath. But which team scored more tries than either of those last season? The narrative doesn't necessarily match the reality.

As a coach, you may have an vision of how you want the side to play, but you are constrained by the players you have (or can reasonably get). The Tigers of recent times do seem to be able to evolve while staying at the top of the pile. It's a trait to be treasured rather than condemned. To change in a revolutionary way is painful and risky. Quins didn't develop their approach overnight - as another poster pointed out, it took a relegation and the cathartic experience of bloodgate. Be careful what you wish for?

I posted the question in a separate thread because it's what at least a couple of posters said in the Bath thread and I've read it previously, probably after we lost the semi last year. And I agree pretty much with everything you've said above. But I was hoping someone could enlighten me as to exactly how Tigers hadn't "moved on". Still awaiting that answer.