Armitage

[trendylfj]

We just can't have it both ways. I don't remember the issue of residency being brought up when TTT played for England recently. The only difference was that he had not played for NZ I, for one, would not complain if any English born/qualified players who are playing and living in another country AND are not being picked for their birth/family country, taking the opportunity to play international rugby for the country they are resident in. Either there is a residency qualification or there isn't. I may have an issue with why they are not being chosen for England and the RFU's selection policy, but neither party cannot say they were unaware what may be the result of such a policy.

[4071]

We just can't have it both ways. I don't remember the issue of residency being brought up when TTT played for England recently. The only difference was that he had not played for NZ I, for one, would not complain if any English born/qualified players who are playing and living in another country AND are not being picked for their birth/family country, taking the opportunity to play international rugby for the country they are resident in. Either there is a residency qualification or there isn't. I may have an issue with why they are not being chosen for England and the RFU's selection policy, but neither party cannot say they were unaware what may be the result of such a policy.

Waldrom didn't qualify on residency, though.

[4071]

I say good luck to the man, if the English authority still refuse to pick him because he plays for a french club, then it's hard luck on them, after al he was the European player of the season last year. I hope the French select him to play for them, particularly against England and that he scores a try in a French winning side. I don't know any better way of sticking two fingers up at the shower that run English rugby.

I'd hope that he plays for France and scores match-winning tries against Wales and Ireland, but I can't imagine ever wanting to see england lose. I can't imagine being that bitter over a perfectly reasonable selection policy.

[Noddy555]

For John the Griff. Picking players for internationals should entirely depend on form and not who and where they play. I presume the other players you are talking about are fully fledged adults and able to decide for themselves and their respective families who they should play for, or are we rewarding such players who have a misguided patriotism that they should remain in this country if they want to play for England. Well if they do I can tell them that the stuffed shirts at the RU will drop them like a lead balloon should their form dip even temporarily. Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Hang on didn't somebody say that before. Well they were right.

[h's dad]

For John the Griff. Picking players for internationals should entirely depend on form and not who and where they play. I presume the other players you are talking about are fully fledged adults and able to decide for themselves and their respective families who they should play for, or are we rewarding such players who have a misguided patriotism that they should remain in this country if they want to play for England. Well if they do I can tell them that the stuffed shirts at the RU will drop them like a lead balloon should their form dip even temporarily. Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Hang on didn't somebody say that before. Well they were right.

1. Who picks the team?
2. Your quote was originally made by a narrow nationalist and actually referred to false use of the term.
3. How can you bear to support a team that contains so many players proud to wear their national colours with an attitude that you profess to despise?

[tigerburnie]

There's a problem now in the England camp, it's called the EPS, players have to be selected a long way in front of any games actually played, so the selection cannot be easily changed. I don't know what the answer is, but the current situation is always going to mean that players may start a game when all can see they should not be there on current form. Not picking players from France or anywhere else for that matter, is a direct result of the fact that they cannot always get access to players for training. I dare say if Steffon was playing in the Premiership, he may have added to his caps tally.

[trendylfj]

We just can't have it both ways. I don't remember the issue of residency being brought up when TTT played for England recently. The only difference was that he had not played for NZ I, for one, would not complain if any English born/qualified players who are playing and living in another country AND are not being picked for their birth/family country, taking the opportunity to play international rugby for the country they are resident in. Either there is a residency qualification or there isn't. I may have an issue with why they are not being chosen for England and the RFU's selection policy, but neither party cannot say they were unaware what may be the result of such a policy.

Waldrom didn't qualify on residency, though.

Sorry - I stand corrected and with head bowed will go and stand in the dunces corner

[johnthegriff]

If Stephan was playing in the Premiership he would definitely have added to his caps tally. Even in the olden days when many of us were playing if you did not turn up or were not available for training you did not play on the Saturday unless the team was desperate. The situation is the same with French based players, not available for all squad sessions (excepting injury) = not available for selection.
Any player having been selected for any national team should not be able to switch nationalities at will.
I do not object to qualification on residency or parental/grandparent birth place but jumping ship to suit seems wrong to me.

[h's dad]

In Armitage’s last game for England, most of England’s points came from a French based player. Then, despite a decent game, Armitage was left out in the cold for well over a year before moving to France and the same club as that high scoring nailed on English stalwart.

[trendylfj]

I have done only a little bit of research and stand to be corrected but in 2013, out of the 23.9% of players who played for England who were not BORN in England, only 2, I believe, qualified via the residency route - Yarde and Vunipola. The rest of the 11 not English born, qualified via parents or grandparents. Not sure if either of them qualified via the passport they hold but can't find any English parents or grandparents.

Source : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... alent.html

[jgriffin]

In Armitage’s last game for England, most of England’s points came from a French based player. Then, despite a decent game, Armitage was left out in the cold for well over a year before moving to France and the same club as that high scoring nailed on English stalwart.

Exactly.

[TomWeston]

I have done only a little bit of research and stand to be corrected but in 2013, out of the 23.9% of players who played for England who were not BORN in England, only 2, I believe, qualified via the residency route - Yarde and Vunipola. The rest of the 11 not English born, qualified via parents or grandparents. Not sure if either of them qualified via the passport they hold but can't find any English parents or grandparents.

Source : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... alent.html

Yarde and (both) Vunipolas are qualified in the same manner as Manu, iirc, Yarde having been schooled at Whitgift for several years and the Vunipolas at Millfield and Harrow respectively.

[jgriffin]

I have done only a little bit of research and stand to be corrected but in 2013, out of the 23.9% of players who played for England who were not BORN in England, only 2, I believe, qualified via the residency route - Yarde and Vunipola. The rest of the 11 not English born, qualified via parents or grandparents. Not sure if either of them qualified via the passport they hold but can't find any English parents or grandparents.

Source : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... alent.html

Yarde and (both) Vunipolas are qualified in the same manner as Manu, iirc, Yarde having been schooled at Whitgift for several years and the Vunipolas at Millfield and Harrow respectively.

The Vunipolas qualified for Wales by residence I recall as did their relative Faletau

[G.K]

In Armitage’s last game for England, most of England’s points came from a French based player. Then, despite a decent game, Armitage was left out in the cold for well over a year before moving to France and the same club as that high scoring nailed on English stalwart.

Exactly.

Before the selection policy was implemented, as you well know, so irrelevant.

[h's dad]

In Armitage’s last game for England, most of England’s points came from a French based player. Then, despite a decent game, Armitage was left out in the cold for well over a year before moving to France and the same club as that high scoring nailed on English stalwart.

Exactly.

Before the selection policy was implemented, as you well know, so irrelevant.

Ah, implemented. But the policy had always been there. It was always going to be difficult to know how strongly this re-announcement of an existing policy was going to be kept to, especially as the wording had more holes in than a string vest. And presumably when the announcement was made Armitage was seriously considering the move anyway, if not committed. I think it is very relevant to understanding Armitage's move.