Armitage

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amazing tiger
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Armitage

Post by amazing tiger » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:28 pm

this may cours a lot of controversy on the forum but how can armitage play for france when he has 5 caps for england. the olympics rules are coming into rugby union its just not right. so anyone could play for any country if they werent caped for 18 months and had played their for 36 months. would like to hear your thoughts on it.

loretta
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Re: Armitage

Post by loretta » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:17 pm

More info please
I find your lack of faith......disturbing.

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Re: Armitage

Post by Darc Tiger » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:18 pm


kingol22
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Re: Armitage

Post by kingol22 » Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:51 pm

Ridiculous if it is allowed to happen. But I think you have to look at Armitage as well, the irb give a loop hole but who would use it? I mean if you see yourself as english why would you then want to go and represent France?

IMO This is him trying to get back into the England set up using the media to pressure Lancaster.

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Re: Armitage

Post by jgriffin » Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:21 pm

There are going to be more movements, especially where people have been born in one country and played for another. Perhaps George North fancies playing for England?
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Smurphswillgetya
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Re: Armitage

Post by Smurphswillgetya » Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:47 pm

kingol22 wrote: I mean if you see yourself as english why would you then want to go and represent France?
Because despite playing out of his skin and being one of the best in the world in his position, England have turned their back on him so why shouldnt he do the same.
Of course this is my own opinion and other posters may have a different perceived factual viewpoint.

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Re: Armitage

Post by TigerLad » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:31 am

Smurphswillgetya wrote:
kingol22 wrote: I mean if you see yourself as english why would you then want to go and represent France?
Because despite playing out of his skin and being one of the best in the world in his position, England have turned their back on him so why shouldnt he do the same.
If he wants to play for England he HAS to play in England. There's nothing for either the RFU or Armitage to be confused about there. He knew perfectly well this was the case and that the rule wouldn't be changed when he signed his renewal at Toulon recently. HE has chosen to end his England career by playing abroad and for that I'd say that he is the one who has turned his back on his country. I'm sure Lancaster and the RFU have been trying to convince him to come back to England, because as you say, he's a quality player who would start for England IMO. But he is still playing for Toulon, not England, and that is entirely his decision. He has not been ignored.

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Re: Armitage

Post by jack » Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:48 am

Isn't it also the case that the family have connections to a French colony/overseas dept etc? So if England just won't pick him Steffon, playing in France, with a measure of French blood as well as residential qualifications, could hardly be blamed for becoming 'French'.
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Tiger_in_Birmingham
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Re: Armitage

Post by Tiger_in_Birmingham » Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:52 am

There's talk of Mafi doing the same in Aus to be able to play for them

kingol22
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Re: Armitage

Post by kingol22 » Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:00 am

Smurphswillgetya wrote:
kingol22 wrote: I mean if you see yourself as english why would you then want to go and represent France?
Because despite playing out of his skin and being one of the best in the world in his position, England have turned their back on him so why shouldnt he do the same.
He turned his back on England not the other way around, he knew the rules about overseas players and chose to move anyway.

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Re: Armitage

Post by jgriffin » Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:28 am

kingol22 wrote:
Smurphswillgetya wrote:
kingol22 wrote: I mean if you see yourself as english why would you then want to go and represent France?
Because despite playing out of his skin and being one of the best in the world in his position, England have turned their back on him so why shouldnt he do the same.
He turned his back on England not the other way around, he knew the rules about overseas players and chose to move anyway.
Actually that wasn't quite how it was. I don't want to repeat the ludicrous, fact-free argument I got in last year (the facts are in relevant newspaper archives) but Lancaster has favourites, regardless of form. The Armitages weren't and knew it, just like Toby became.
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h's dad
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Re: Armitage

Post by h's dad » Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:04 pm

jgriffin wrote:
kingol22 wrote:
Smurphswillgetya wrote:-kingol22-I mean if you see yourself as english why would you then want to go and represent France?
-quote-

Because despite playing out of his skin and being one of the best in the world in his position, England have turned their back on him so why shouldnt he do the same.
He turned his back on England not the other way around, he knew the rules about overseas players and chose to move anyway.
Actually that wasn't quite how it was. I don't want to repeat the ludicrous, fact-free argument I got in last year (the facts are in relevant newspaper archives) but Lancaster has favourites, regardless of form. The Armitages weren't and knew it, just like Toby became.
“Only in exceptional circumstances, then we may pick them. But if there is a 50-50 choice between players, then it’s most likely we’ll pick the player from England. A player runs a risk if he goes to France."
That is hardly a rule. If only somebody could think of a precedent of an overseas player being picked for England since this statement was made! I can only deduce that JG is right in his comment concerning 'favourites'. Armitage is world class in a position that England are struggling to effectively fill.
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Re: Armitage

Post by jgriffin » Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:26 pm

I may be wrong, but it seemed to be a no-brainer for all of last season. And Lancaster just would NOT. As you say, it is a choice - and a stupid one - not a rule. The Welsh soon let that one drop.
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Re: Armitage

Post by G.K » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:51 pm

Whether you agree with it or not all EQ players were informed in December 2010 that the intention (not a rule) was that after RWC 2011 to select only players playing in England for English clubs, except in exceptional circumstances (not depending on how well they were playing).

Stefan Armitage chose to go to Toulon after the 2011 season so it's hardly a surprise he hasn't been picked for England again since.
Nowadays referees decide matches, players by how much.

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Re: Armitage

Post by jgriffin » Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:05 pm

after the debacle against Wales, the need for a world class 7 would seem to be to be an exception, especially when you haven't got one apart from the bloke playing his socks off in France and winning awards.
Some of you on here can be awful Little Englanders (mind you there are some who think Manu shouldn't play for England.....). :smt012
Just because NZ operate such a policy doesn't mean England has to ape it - and many would argue it does NZ a disservice.
Leicester Tigers 1995-
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A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.

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