Nigel Owens

[Smudge]

To take this discussion on, does anyone still have the statistics
concerning his games?
I seem to remember some very damning figures produced a while ago
on this forum showing how often Celtic teams won when he was officiating.
It was quite revealing.

For my own part I have always believed he was both poor and biased.

[Tigerref]

He made a few bad calls - some for England some against, there was one CI - it went against England. That's it.

But that is the point in it's entirety. He makes bad calls. You don't want to be involved in or watch a game when the ref makes one howler after another and in this game he messed up big time. For me when he called the two knock on's were totally unacceptable as he was no where near the ball on either occasion and he just could not be sure that the ball was knocked on.

How many times do you see a player look bemused when they have knocked on? Very rarely because when it happens they know they have done it. But surely he could of looked at Freddie Burns's expression and thought Oh... I might of got that one wrong. No I bet he didn't because he is too sure of his own self importance. To me NO is a useless ref.

He didn't make a howler after howler.

He and all refs are human they will use judgement, experience and feeling and make almighty cock ups. When they do they get dropped and moved down the ranks - look at Roy Maybanks for example HCup ref 3-4 years ago running touch now.

Generally refs make fewer (or is that less?) mistakes than players. BY all means when they get it wrong have a go - but the expectations that some fans have are clearly unreasonable

Biggest stuff up of the game?

For my money Tom Youngs dropping the ball that lead to the break and yellow card - and the match winning try was scored due to having a prop in Yarde's channel.

[Tigerref]

There may well be no conscience intention to be biased on the part of NO but having seen him ref numerous matches now then it leads me to believe that his decisions are. especially concerning certain teams.

And for the avoidance of doubt I'll retain the right to comment on the refs decisions, regardless of whether anyone likes it or not. There is already too much stifling of free speech and opinion in this country!

For the avoidance of all and further doubt no one is suggesting that your right to free speech is suppressed.


In fact the exact opposite is occurring as the more you express you views the less credible they become.

[BengalTiger]

Of course Owens like most refs allows a greater degree of tolerance to the all Blacks, we see it at every world cup, as someone else has pointed out it makes them very difficult to beat.
The exchange that illuminated it for me happened on the second half kick of AB captain complained to Owens about some infringements England were committing, Owens reply was "OK you watch your guys I will keep an eye on England".
The Nonu pull back was a clear yellow card, I do not know how the Owens apologists on here can argue otherwise, it was cynical and it prevented a possible try scoring opportunity, if anyone other that an AB player had committed the offense he would have been in the bin.
I thought the ref mantra was card early to stamp out cynical offenses, the fact he saw it and then dismissed it as just a penalty marked him out as soft on cynical play by the AB's and the refusal to card the AB holding on on the try line was by any standards a joke, Yard's card was correct but ignoring 2 clear yellows for the AB's and punishing England for the same thing later brings reffing into disrepute.

[Tigerref]

So let's get this straight.

NO is biased
He has fooled all the international coaches (who get an input into selection)
He has fooled all the independent Match observers
He is bias (either for the ABs or against England) and this has been accepted the game - despite EVERY decision he makes being subject to TV coverage and open to scrutiny

Yet here on LT.com we've seen through it all!

BY all means discuss bad decisions - for there were bad decisions but this he's biased :censored: is pathetic

[wormus]

He and all refs are human they will use judgement, experience and feeling and make almighty cock ups. When they do they get dropped and moved down the ranks - look at Roy Maybanks for example HCup ref 3-4 years ago running touch now.

**And guess who refereed last week and is running the touch for this weekends test - Yes Nigel Owens but he is back to referee the Crusaders match.

For my money Tom Youngs dropping the ball that lead to the break and yellow card - and the match winning try was scored due to having a prop in Yarde's channel.

**Now I went to Specsavers last week but even I did not see Tom Youngs on the pitch or even drop the ball, Lets go to the TMO again !!

[Jose]

So let's get this straight.

NO is biased
He has fooled all the international coaches (who get an input into selection)
He has fooled all the independent Match observers
He is bias (either for the ABs or against England) and this has been accepted the game - despite EVERY decision he makes being subject to TV coverage and open to scrutiny

Yet here on LT.com we've seen through it all!

BY all means discuss bad decisions - for there were bad decisions but this he's biased is pathetic

I'm not sure why you're ignoring what various people are actually writing and the nuance around it. I didn't say NO was biased. I said that I can understand how people watching the game could form that conclusion. This is not the same thing. Also - you make the point about focussing excessively on 3 decisions. That's because they were the 3 biggest refereeing decisions in the game, arguably determined the outcome of the game and they all went the way of the All Blacks. It's interesting to note that you haven't expressed a view on the 3 decisions. Do you concur that all 3 should have been yellow cards or not? I accept that they may well have been genuine errors but it does not seem unreasonable that some people watching the game could perceive bias in them, given the lack of consistency they show.

[BengalTiger]

What annoys me is that the AB's seem to always get the benefit of the doubt, not just from Owens, but most refs, twice I saw MaCaw pile straight over the top of rucks, off his feet and NO just looks and waves play on.
I think NO is a top ref, I just do not know what comes over refs when the AB's are playing, they are the most cynical team out there but get treated like kids who can do no wrong.
I thought the shirt pull was a typical example of the leniency given to the AB team from most refs not just NO.

[h's dad]

The first thing anybody who posts on here should acknowledge is that they are biased and that that affects their judgement. Everybody has bias, whether conscious or unconscious and, with respect Tigerref, that includes referees. The point is to recognise it and deal with it.

The other thing is that if you think the failures of Nigel Owen are so blatant you must also attribute these failures to those who put him there and keep him there. If this is the case and you are so passionate about it, why don’t some of you do something constructive about it and I don’t mean firing off complaining emails? If you already are please let us know as I. at least, would be interested to know.

I don’t know who is right and who is wrong as although I am prepared to accept a number of refereeing errors as it is an incredibly difficult job to do well, especially at high level, some of the decisions and their consistency do seem bizarre; the alternative is a frankly unimaginable conspiracy theory.

[Tigerref]

He and all refs are human they will use judgement, experience and feeling and make almighty cock ups. When they do they get dropped and moved down the ranks - look at Roy Maybanks for example HCup ref 3-4 years ago running touch now.

**And guess who refereed last week and is running the touch for this weekends test - Yes Nigel Owens but he is back to referee the Crusaders match.

For my money Tom Youngs dropping the ball that lead to the break and yellow card - and the match winning try was scored due to having a prop in Yarde's channel.

**Now I went to Specsavers last week but even I did not see Tom Youngs on the pitch or even drop the ball, Lets go to the TMO again !!

Fair cop I got the wrong Youngs!

If NO continues to make errors such as he did then he will suffer in the fixtures he gets.

[Tigerref]

So let's get this straight.

NO is biased
He has fooled all the international coaches (who get an input into selection)
He has fooled all the independent Match observers
He is bias (either for the ABs or against England) and this has been accepted the game - despite EVERY decision he makes being subject to TV coverage and open to scrutiny

Yet here on LT.com we've seen through it all!

BY all means discuss bad decisions - for there were bad decisions but this he's biased is pathetic

I'm not sure why you're ignoring what various people are actually writing and the nuance around it. I didn't say NO was biased. I said that I can understand how people watching the game could form that conclusion. This is not the same thing. Also - you make the point about focussing excessively on 3 decisions. That's because they were the 3 biggest refereeing decisions in the game, arguably determined the outcome of the game and they all went the way of the All Blacks. It's interesting to note that you haven't expressed a view on the 3 decisions. Do you concur that all 3 should have been yellow cards or not? I accept that they may well have been genuine errors but it does not seem unreasonable that some people watching the game could perceive bias in them, given the lack of consistency they show.

I fully understand the nuance - and I equally understand that some posters have come and said flat out that NO was biased.

You may not have waded through the previous posts - I have expressed my view earlier but for clarity.

1. Yarde YC spot on (I even dealt with the 'he stripped him' defence)
2. Nonu 'YC' my mind was that was 50/50 I wanted it given but didn't see it as a stonewall yellow - prepared to accept that others do
3. The 'big' one the real missing yellow card - I descried this as a critical incident. This is ref speak for major f up.

I think he had a poor game. But the claims that he was biased are laughable.

There's heaps of examples where England benefited from poor calls in this game.

For fear of throwing petrol on the fire - look at the last PK that NZ get -that lead to the quick tap and try -can you tell me what the offence is?

[4071]

For fear of throwing petrol on the fire - look at the last PK that NZ get -that lead to the quick tap and try -can you tell me what the offence is?

It was for not releasing. And given that the only NZ player attempting to play the ball went for it AFTER the ruck had formed, it could easily have been a penalty to England instead.

[jgriffin]

Having watched in distress and despair as the ABs have been allowed to totally flout the laws over the years - Wales 4 years ago, second test; KO rounds of WC11 spring to mind - I accuse them, with the incompetent connivance of inadequate reffing (NO being the latest example), of messing up the modern game. I also think they would not have won the WC or a few other games in the last decadeor so I've been watching. I emphatically reject excuses offered above.

You can ascribe the invention of most current professional fouls to the ABs - certain every breakdown one, advance guards, 'dummy run' blocking and shirt-pulling - and to my mind the greatest get-out of all, Umaga and Mealamu deliberately injuring BOD, unpunished.

I don't worshp them, I think they have (in recent years)polluted the game.

I feel better now I've written that and will go back on the tablets.

[cidermark]

[G.K]

There may well be no conscience intention to be biased on the part of NO but having seen him ref numerous matches now then it leads me to believe that his decisions are. especially concerning certain teams.

And for the avoidance of doubt I'll retain the right to comment on the refs decisions, regardless of whether anyone likes it or not. There is already too much stifling of free speech and opinion in this country!

For the avoidance of all and further doubt no one is suggesting that your right to free speech is suppressed.

In fact the exact opposite is occurring as the more you express you views the less credible they become.

That's just your biased view, but from the posts I've read I'd say more seem to agree with my views than with some of yours. But then again what can you expect from a ref who can't identify which players are even in New Zealand?